endwalker seen as low point?

[Vyrerus]

i dont have a history i can use to see why people would think that.

It has to do with Endwalker coming after the peak that was Shadowbringers. Shadowbringers was lightning in a bottle, and whatever follow-up they chose to do was likely never going to rise to equal it. At least in terms of presentation and story.

However, since Stormblood, the game has been on a downward trend regarding gameplay content, with the homogenization of jobs beginning then. Feedback from that first step in SHB objectively made every job simpler to play, particularly Tanks and Healers, and as such all gameplay related to combat (see: The Majority of the Gameplay) has suffered for it. Endwalker continued this trend, choosing flash over substance for nearly every job's rotations.

Then there's the fact that also since Stormblood, the amount of battle content has also gone down. Sure, they try new things and use that as an excuse for less, but we as players have no actual idea how much work goes into say a Eureka zone vs. a Dungeon zone. Or a Trial fight vs. a Dungeon zone. Or a sidequest chain with instanced battle vs. a dungeon zone.

FFXIV started in the valley of 1.0. A gorgeous game with high spec requirements and lovely worldbuilding. All dressed up to do nothing, ultimately though. Low point.

Then it rose up onto the hill of 2.0 with Yoshi-P's intervention, and sorta settled in to what it is gameplaywise, now, just with lower QoL. High Point, but later regarded as low point by new members to playerbase.

Then 3.0 came off the successful high point of 2.0, and delivered a juicy expansion in the form of Heavensward, which remains the only expansion to only add onto content in all areas without taking anything away or scaling anything back. High point, still regarded as the highest by veterans to the game, though some disagree.

Then 4.0 came, and it came riddled with issues from the beginning. They pruned job actions, killed Cross-Class skills in favor of Role skills, and only mitigated this by introducing two new jobs, both very simple in their execution (though the inner weeb of many wanted to believe Samurai was complex upon its introduction). Both jobs were also DPS. This expansion started giving us less dungeons every patch, only quipping in to say that the "innovation" of the Eureka zones was why. When the Eureka zones didn't even start showing up until 4.2 or 4.3 or whenever it was, and are essentially monster farms with fates (though I do personally like them). Raid quality was actually good, but Stormblood started the idea of checkpoints in fights with Exdeath > Neo Exdeath in its Savage raid series of Deltascape. In spite of being original with its antagonist in base 4.0, Zenos was received poorly by the playerbase at large, at the time, and I'd say is still. A lot of older players of XIV regard Stormblood as a low point at the time, but in later years look at it fondly, since the later expansions offer even less. We'll say low point, but it's still quite a bit better than 2.0 which was a high point in reality.

Shadowbringers burst on the scene at the start of summer 2019, and boy howdy, it was one hell of a ride that pretty much everyone enjoyed. However, battle classes became further simplified, so SHB is literally only carried by the strength of its narrative and its narrative presentation. Couple that with this being the point where there was an absolute deluge of new players to FFXIV who honestly don't know any better about the gameplay systems, and you get this highly lauded success where its downsides aren't perceptible by most of the people playing it. A high point for FFXIV, just for its sheer draw in of folks not already playing FFXIV.

Then we have Endwalker. Endwalker was supposed to be this epic conclusion where everything is epic and off the chain. It's supposed to be dramatic. It's supposed to show us the other side of the truth that we were shown in SHB. It's supposed to conclude Zenos at last. It's supposed to be glorious.

Yet... It was more or less mediocre. It failed to actually show truth, only willing to show us the other side of the truth we were told in SHB through eclectic metaphor. Its big world ending threat was barely a hiccup, and almost entirely unrelated to all prior expansions. There was no meaningful drama outside of the eclectic metaphor, and by the end of it, it really only wrapped up what was setup in StB/SHB on screen. All other narrative wrap ups are barely passing mentions. Towers? All went away nary a problem when we beat Anima. Final Days everywhere but Thavnair? Yeah, they kinda happened, but no biggie. Garlean leftover legions? Mostly disbanded, only maybe sorta kinda still out there somewhere.
EW's large positive reception is likely due to newbies again. They're still honeymooning with XIV, not longtime players. It's hard to hate on a game you only started playing 2 or 3 years ago, and it's hard to know better when you never experienced its previous iterations. Again it's not universal, but that's the crux of why some folks think of EW as a low point. I think it's a low point.

But, hey, if it's printing money for SE, they'll see it as a high point just like 2.0 was a high point, and we'll get more of the same, stale, hackneyed stuff we got in this "epic conclusion."

[Shougun]

I think it was coming off the ShB high mixed with age of some players, and continuation of specific job design practices, and everything else is just a sore spot to point at because of it. Like I doubt relic would have been as noted in ShB, or we have the same job design path in both expansions.

Personally don't share these issues as significantly as others but I also intentionally approach the game with a non-burnout cadence.

Since SMN was mentioned, I dont like the style of jobs changing from underneath someone, but actually enjoy end game SMN simplicity lol. Or the pvp kits which are all quite small but have meaningful abilities. I've not pushed too hard on that stuff for this game because of that, but more action oriented meaningful kit with valid differences is something I'd look forward to in the next mmo. Too much stuff, that's all vaguely similar.

[Tsumdere]

The revisionist history turning positively on Stormblood has been amusing to watch from the sidelines as well.

Right?

I remember very clearly how much people didn't like Stormblood. Launch was terrible, it had poor story until 4.3, abysmal raid story until 4.4, absolutely no crafting/gathering casual content, and the big sell of the expansion Eureka was a very widely disliked FATE farm, no matter what Shadowbringers+ zoomers say about it now. It's also when the job design team started showing they had the intelligence of mossy rocks - remember original Plenary Indulgence or how SMN/SCH lost Sustain but their pets could take damage and die?

I personally rate the expansions (with all things considered):

Shadowbringers > Heavensward >>> Endwalker (mostly because 6.x story, 2 min meta, and the travesty that is TOP) >> Stormblood = ARR

Not great, but not as dire as everyone paints it out to be. It's on the lower end of mediocrity. The 6.x MSQ has been plodding along at a snails pace, but the glams/raid/PvP/DSR has been good.

[Hurlstone]

Overall reviews do seem very positive and overall playership has reminded strong despite a natural dip once the hype lessened, so I am sure SE are happy. Often in these cases there is no objective answer though. To some people it will be a low point, others a high point. There is no real right or wrong answer in that regard, especially as people judge the game on different things. I personally do not think it matched SB’s level of writing, but I still loved it. No game is prefect and its unfair to crucify something just because it may not have matched the series highpoint.

[Themarvin]

i was just watching a youtuber and he mentioned endwalker is seen too some as a low point for ff14 but didnt expand on it...any ideas why people think that? im not an endwalker lover or anything but i started ff in shadowbringers so i dont have a history i can use to see why people would think that.

Those youtubers usually am full of themself and think their opinions is the only opinion, be it this or that one supposed to be high up, it barely reflects the community and game as well other than some kind of oneside egocentric trashtalk, which is aimed the mostly after simps... that will follow anything... and trolls.

Endwalker is by some confused as a low point because the Scions basically broke up and now there is a new story to come... it messes with their so called safespace, which means they need to spew out all kinds of things as their fears need to be put onto others in some kind of flock mentality boost.

I believe we have not seen the best yet from FFXIV.

[True-to-Caesar]

Well what I can say is that since I started playing in 5.55, I have lost the hook and don’t play/login as I used to until 6.3.
I think I expected more, as in, better used maps for exploration (like ESO), and any other activity that isn’t just dungeons/trials/raids and the harder versions of them, which I don’t even bother with.

I had hopes for Island Sanctuary but it was mostly a mobile timegated content. Only good thing they did was to allow players to use outdoor furniture (can’t use the retainer permit sadly), maybe they’ll allow players to make their own house in the long run (I do own a medium but wish I had a Large to be able to go wild, until then it’s not super interesting as it is right now).

[Shurrikhan]

Endwalker being a low point implies that its the worst expansion. I brought up a worse expansion.

Please, explain how that's whataboutism. I'll wait.

I mean, if your answer to "This is a low point" is "There has been at least one lower point before"... how is that not a "whataboutism"?

<< "This guy's pretty awful."

>> "Sure, but he's no Columbus/Hitler."

<< "This expansion seems to me to have trended negatively in certain key aspects (story, job design, etc.) that make me feel it has marked a downward turn in overall design."

>> "Sure, but ARR was worse."

...How would the one be a whataboutism, and not the other?
_______________

For my part, I don't really see the point in on-the-whole evaluations anyways (I'd rather talk specifically and separately about story, content pacing, content variety, job design, encounter design, etc.), but to point at something worse from the past just to dismiss critiques about the present is pretty obviously the opposite of anything constructive.

[sagacious]

Your opinion is the low point of this forum.

[Atelier-Bagur]

It has to do with Endwalker coming after the peak that was Shadowbringers. Shadowbringers was lightning in a bottle, and whatever follow-up they chose to do was likely never going to rise to equal it. At least in terms of presentation and story.

Sorry to break it to you sweetie but Shadowbringers wasnt that great. I'll admit it was good, but the quality was just on par with Heavensward and Stormblood and yes this includes Endwalker.

[Vyrerus]

I am a simpleton who thinks they're cracking wise.

That's nice. You have fun with your own thoughts there, budro. /patpat