endwalker seen as low point?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Time changes many things. I get a laugh watching the final fantasy subreddit discussing the games now. FFXIII fans now feel free to state it's their favorite game in the series and I'll actually see FFVI get 'eh, it's not as good as people say it is' now.

I wonder how long after XVI will people be able to say "Eh, it wasn't that good" without getting mobbed?

On topic: OP, assuming this is a serious post, you're asking a massive group of people to come to a consensus on how something is viewed, that's just not going to happen. People all have different opinions on how something was received. Strictly dollars-wise however, Endwalker was extremely successful.

Its people finally taking the rose tinted goggles off, its quite common amongst the average opinioniated gamer such as ourselves.

Its honestly very annoying and disingenous when people talk about the past tense like "this used to be good" when really its just them trying to twist the narrative to justify their opinions without having a consistent perspective of the product.

They quickly forget the annoyances, the issues, the lack of content and in terms of shadowbringers's plot specifically, the egregious filler and predictability. Really imo I think the only reason people even like Shb is because of two things; Ardbert and Emet-Selch. Theyre arguably the most important characters that carry that narrative very well. But personally I need more than just that in order for the expansion to be a masterpiece.

Frankly as someone who has played numerous jrpgs new and old....I dont think we've had that yet with this game. The only praise I can give is that each expansion has been consistently well, but it doesnt hold a candle to stories like FFX or Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest VIII or Tales of the Abyss.

My opinions of course but still

[Boblawblah]

Its people finally taking the rose tinted goggles off, its quite common amongst the average opinioniated gamer such as ourselves.

Its honestly very annoying and disingenous when people talk about the past tense like "this used to be good" when really its just them trying to twist the narrative to justify their opinions without having a consistent perspective of the product.

They quickly forget the annoyances, the issues, the lack of content and in terms of shadowbringers's plot specifically, the egregious filler and predictability. Really imo I think the only reason people even like Shb is because of two things; Ardbert and Emet-Selch. Theyre arguably the most important characters that carry that narrative very well. But personally I need more than just that in order for the expansion to be a masterpiece.

Frankly as someone who has played numerous jrpgs new and old....I dont think we've had that yet with this game. The only praise I can give is that each expansion has been consistently well, but it doesnt hold a candle to stories like FFX or Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest VIII or Tales of the Abyss.

My opinions of course but still

I can appreciate that for sure.

ShB for me WAS very good. The first moment I was just blown away was when we killed the first light warden and the sky went back to dark. There was just something about that that grabbed me, and I was hooked for most of the expansion. You're right though, we quickly forget the annoyances, me included. I remember getting really frustrated with Thancred and Ryne and actively started wanting to skip cutscenes with them because of how annoying they were. Ranjit? Hated him. And yet, I still say "ShB was INCREDIBLE" lol.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I can appreciate that for sure.

ShB for me WAS very good. The first moment I was just blown away was when we killed the first light warden and the sky went back to dark. There was just something about that that grabbed me, and I was hooked for most of the expansion. You're right though, we quickly forget the annoyances, me included. I remember getting really frustrated with Thancred and Ryne and actively started wanting to skip cutscenes with them because of how annoying they were. Ranjit? Hated him. And yet, I still say "ShB was INCREDIBLE" lol.

I was disappointed with the direction the story took with ShB, since it felt so much like they changed lanes at the last second. I get that it was setup for a visit to the First but knowing how the team originally planned for a Garlemald expansion, and the fact the narrative was eerily still pushing towards that direction with the post-SB patches was just so unsatisfying when I got to 6.0

It felt like I was just played with and suddenly all that important Garlemald stuff and with the Empire crumbling was literally playing in the bg, it made me personally hard to focus on our adventures in the First. It felt like the most filler or filler arcs, with the important bit being towards the end with Amarout.

Oh well, I still actually enjoyed Shb's story and what it did in terms of ideas but I dont necessarily call its narrative a "masterpiece". It certainly didnt live up to my own hype at least.

[Ransu]

i was just watching a youtuber and he mentioned endwalker is seen too some as a low point for ff14 but didnt expand on it...any ideas why people think that? im not an endwalker lover or anything but i started ff in shadowbringers so i dont have a history i can use to see why people would think that.

Its mixed for me. In terms if MSQ its SHB>HW>EW. In terms of content SB beats all of them. That was the heigh of fight designs imo.

[DixieBellOCE]

In terms of content it has about the same as Shadowbringers.

The real disappointment is the quality and replayability of content is much worse than it has been in the past.

6.4 so far has been a great patch, we got an extreme trial that wasn't completely face roll, a normal raid series that didn't babysit you and next week a savage that looks to be the peak raid content of the expansion.

[Striker44]

i was just watching a youtuber and he mentioned endwalker is seen too some as a low point for ff14 but didnt expand on it...any ideas why people think that? im not an endwalker lover or anything but i started ff in shadowbringers so i dont have a history i can use to see why people would think that.

It's not. SE itself, various Reddit sites, and so on have done polls on the expansions, and EW typically ranks 2nd in terms of "favorite expansion" behind ShB as the typical 1st. Random Youtubers and the select few trolls that inhabit this forum are representative of...well...absolutely nothing.

For instance, for every poster here complaining that they didn't like the EW story, head over to just one YT video and you'll probably find hundreds of people posting about how they enjoyed it, how it struck a meaningful chord with them, and so on. It's basically a small group of people who equate "they didn't write the story I personally want, therefore the story is bad." *shrugs*

[Sheriyana]

It's not. SE itself, various Reddit sites, and so on have done polls on the expansions, and EW typically ranks 2nd in terms of "favorite expansion" behind ShB as the typical 1st. Random Youtubers and the select few trolls that inhabit this forum are representative of...well...absolutely nothing.

For instance, for every poster here complaining that they didn't like the EW story, head over to just one YT video and you'll probably find hundreds of people posting about how they enjoyed it, how it struck a meaningful chord with them, and so on. It's basically a small group of people who equate "they didn't write the story I personally want, therefore the story is bad." *shrugs*

You keep telling yourself that, whatever helps you sleep at night ^-^ You can tell from this thread that a lot of people weren't happy with the story but you prefer to think you know every single person who plays the game and they all loved it, talk about delusional. I think I'd rather take the word of a random youtuber than you, the self appointed represantive of the people™

[DayHealer]

It's not. SE itself, various Reddit sites, and so on have done polls on the expansions, and EW typically ranks 2nd in terms of "favorite expansion" behind ShB as the typical 1st. Random Youtubers and the select few trolls that inhabit this forum are representative of...well...absolutely nothing.

For instance, for every poster here complaining that they didn't like the EW story, head over to just one YT video and you'll probably find hundreds of people posting about how they enjoyed it, how it struck a meaningful chord with them, and so on. It's basically a small group of people who equate "they didn't write the story I personally want, therefore the story is bad." *shrugs*

How it feels to live in your personal bubble?

[CNitsah]

I think the mixed feeling come from several points. I don't agree with all I will be listing, but that's what I observed.

First of all, there is the msq. 6.3 and 6.4 have been seen as a disappointment by many. Several point seem to come back :
- the impression that the story is stalling, because of the 1 trial by patch format. The story can't really progress naturally, because we know which are the steps, and a lot feels like circling around before getting the point. Some people don't see pacing the story as a problem, but there it's a fact a good part of the players do. Reddit is a place known to be an echo chamber of the concensus. That line of thinking not being downvoted to oblivion make me think it's not just a few vocals people on the forum, but a vision shared by part of the community.
- Scions getting shoved again and again. Some people wanted to take the occasion of the Scions disbanding as a perfect occasion to leave the whole Sharlayan gang behind. But no, they keep coming back by small groups.
- The retelling of FFIV story is less imaginative than what they did with things like Eden (FFVIII), the weapons (FFVIII) or the whole Galuf/Krile (FFV). We're closer to FFIV with a few twist for the Golbez storyline than the re-imagination other were.


Second, there is the number of storylines that the patches gave us. I'm gonna quote myself in another thread :

HW patches had 6 storylines : MSQ, Raids Alliance, Raids, Trial story, Relics and Hildibrand (I don't know how the Ydillshire reconstruction worked, so I didn't count it).
SB patches had 7 storylines : MSQ, Raids Alliance, Raids, Trial story, Relics, Hildibrand and Doman reconstruction.
ShB patches had 6 storylines : MSQ, Raids Alliance, Raids, Trial story, Relics and Ishgardian restoration/diadem.
EnWalker has 4 : MSQ, Raids Alliances, Raids and Hildibrand. You could add the Tataru quests (probably should add the shcolasticates quest in HW or post roles-quests in ShB then).

While being just a few storylines, and the content is still mostly there, it feels that there is less going on.


Then there is the content that was basically dead on arrival : adding a new deep dungeon when the previous deep dungeons are already not popular is questionnable. Same goes for the variant dungeons. While nice, there very few reasons to run it after a few days/weeks for the slower people.


There is the whole relics polemic. Some find the use of allagan tombstone to get them not engaging. You just have to basically continue to do your roulettes, and you will get what you need. It feels more like a background task than something you actively engage in. The way it was artificially Frankenstein'ed to the Hildibrand storyline is also sometimes mentionned.


Then, there is the abscence of Eureka/Bozja-Zadnor-like content. Some link that to the way we get relics, but I would differentiate them. Because let's be clear, the out of Bozja options for relics were more profitable, and even with most steps being well done, a couple of them were still godawful. No I think what makes us feel something is missing is the lack of long running content that you can easily go in, easily leave without any consequences for other players. Something you can continue to do at your own pace, without weekly caps and things like that, with enough incentive to play it. Relics used to do that. Fine if you don't want to create another Eureka/bozja, but please put something else to fill that niche.


For the last one, my knowledge is pretty limited, since I don't run this content, so don't hesitate to correct me. It's about the ultimate. From what I heard "Dragonsong's Reprise" was a blast, everyone loved it, I've seen some people say it's the best ultimate they did. So everyone was hyped for "The Omega Protocol", and it didn't deliver. I've read people saying it's the worse Ultimate Raid.


From what I gathered, that's about it. Over all, the game is still good. None of those things alone would really be a problem, but the fact they happens all at the same time raise question about it being just a down moment after the EW vanilla conclusion, or if it is a new direction in term of design of the game.

[Atelier-Bagur]

and before somebody calls me an EW fanboy, I'm not. Just like with ShB, there was a lot of missed potential for its story that I've come to be dissapointed but also like Shb, I dont easily label it as a masterpiece nor as the worst thing ever either. Just like with previous expansions its absolutely fine with its storytelling, personally just a taaaad bit better than Shb. But thats mostly because they keep making the story consistently better with each one expansion. Ive grown to see the FFXIV narrative in the sum of its parts rather than just slices of the pie and for what it is as an MMO story, I feel like its really good.

But does it live up to its single-player narrative stories? Oh my dear me no... The game itself suffers from a lot of issues that prevent it from reaching to that point. And its not completely it's fault. Its an MMO so ofcourse the structure is gonna be stupid, but I can appreciate that it strives to keep the storytelling interesting as it goes. I'm personally interested in the 6.x patch story so far and Im excited for what 7.0 may bring, but thats as far as I'm gonna praise FFXIV's narrative as. Its just interesting, but never brilliant.