Relic News - 6.45

[Eraden]

fellas dev team already treats us like cavemen don't gotta prove em right by talking like them

Mao is feral dragon-kin. When Mao was baby, Mao was found and raised by nice Dragon Momma. Mao nots know Eorzean language very well. Mao knows Dragon speakings well though. GROWF!

[VelKallor]

Specifically afflicting the under 18 age group. Ah well, you truly do learn something every day~ ◕‿↼

..theres this thing called a sense of humour?

[Caitlinzulu]

Kitty like Mao. Kitty want to give greeting licks,

[Renathras]

But even if the relics were to be tied to something that base-level casuals can't complete, is that really such a bad thing?

Yes, it is a bad thing.

For people that want hard and grindy high level organized party combat, there's Savage weapons. Having Criterion Relics would be redundant since the people who have statics or like trying their luck with the PF already have Savage weapons. Like I love PotD, HoH, etc, but I don't have statics. So I solo them when I feel like it.

Past Relics worked that way. You could either solo/DF them (ARR/HW) or pick up groups on the fly in exploration zones (Eureka/Bozja). None ever required statics or organized parties to do. Those were options people could do, but they were entirely doable for non-static players, which is the majority of the playerbase. Difficulty was substituted for persistence. Instead of mastering hard fights for a Savage weapon, you have to have knowledge of the steps and dogged dedication to the grind. Both were challenging in their own way as they had to be worked for. It's like comparing a star athlete who works super hard for a decade to amass some millions to retire on to the nose-to-the-grindstone tradesman who works 50 years to achieve the same general result.

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Also, the argument "you don't need it, why do you want it" is and always has been stupid. There's no content you're worse off having better gear, no content in the game (aside from MAYBE Ultimates after the expansion is over) need BiS to complete, and the entire point of an MMO is bettering, improving, and strengthening your character, which is tied to gear.

Asking "Why do you want good gear, if you aren't raiding?" is like asking "Why do you work out, if you aren't going to run a marathon?"; there are reasons to do and have these things besides doing Savage content. It's never been a good question to ask.

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The people this is probably going to annoy the most are folks like me who love the Eureka/Bozja content or even the ARR/HW Relic grinds. Raiders have their Savages and Ultimates, hyper-casuals have their Limsa Aetherite. We in the middle have nothing right now, and it sucks. I knew when they said they weren't doing an Exploration zone this expansion, it was going to suck. But with even longer patch cycles/content drought and nothing like that to grind on...it's sucking a lot more than I anticipated. And no, Island Sweatshop ain't it for me.

Here's hoping they and all the anti-Eureka/Boaja people have learned how much this sucks and we can go back to that content next expansion. It really helps during the content drought periods to have stuff like that to grind and farm.

[VelKallor]

Also, the argument "you don't need it, why do you want it" is and always has been stupid.

Its gatekeeping, really. "You dont need this because I say so and because I will tell you what you should have"

Asking "Why do you want good gear, if you aren't raiding?" is like asking "Why do you work out, if you aren't going to run a marathon?"; there are reasons to do and have these things besides doing Savage content. It's never been a good question to ask.

Its more WOW level gatekeeping, tbh. I had this same hilarious conversation back then, talking about elixirs I made "You shouldnt be using them they are for raiding only"..yet when I looked at them, I didnt see " this is for raiders only" anywhere...what made me laugh the hardest was this wombat telling me what to do with elixirs I CRAFTED..."give them to your guild"..yeah....

NO.

hyper-casuals have their Limsa Aetherite.

This meme is getting real old.

We in the middle have nothing right now, and it sucks.

Speak for yourself, Im busy all the time. And no I didnt like Bozja either.

Here's hoping they and all the anti-Eureka/Boaja people have learned how much this sucks and we can go back to that content next expansion. It really helps during the content drought periods to have stuff like that to grind and farm.

"We"? Who is "we"?

YOU may like this kind of interminable grind, doesnt mean others do...I can see the meme "yeah you afk in Limsa all the time" no, I dont actually. Each of us finds what we want to do and what we dont, I can think of a lot of people who are actually put off with this kind of hamster wheel, so lauding it as 'something everyone wants to do"..is flat out wrong.

Heres the major issue I have with Eureka and Bozja, this is actually a discussion I had earlier today, they are not future proofed. Once the content is older or glam only it attracts only a small number of people.."but..but....you can do it in party finder", again, no thanks, thats other people doing areas you may not even be up to yet..plus those who have what they wanted from those areas have little to no interest afterwards.

I was even in an FC that said yeah we will do Eureka, they did all of ONE session and then said " yeah Im not interested, go do it yourself"

I am not..repeat not..repeat NOT fighting mobs that are and have been deliberately designed to be GROUP content alone. "You may find others there"..yeah and I may not, except for bots of course.

Want me to get interested in Eureka?

Make it all soloable.

Lastly: this "content drought" is all of two weeks more than before, patch delays / interregnums are standard for all MMO's across the board.

[Renathras]

Heres the major issue I have with Eureka and Bozja, this is actually a discussion I had earlier today, they are not future proofed.

Want me to get interested in Eureka?

Make it all soloable.

I soloed Eureka in 5.3 from mid-Anemos (which I had done some of in ShB but was in the military at the time so didn't have time to do the rest) to Hydatos. Within two weeks I was leading NM trains around the place. Eureka is hopping most days during general peek times, and all the time on weekends. With the 300% buff to HP, Damage, Healing, and EXP gain in there, and the fact the FATE/NM difficulty scales to number of players in the zone, you can solo pretty much anything you want in there other than BA, and you don't need BA to get the Relics or first upgrade of the Elemental gear (dyable).

Eureka actually IS pretty future-proofed.

Bozja not so much, but while it was current, it wasn't too terrible. And people were saying at the time there'd be issues. The Devs were a bit slow to respond, but it wasn't too bad.

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As for the current Relic being something you can get with Tomes:

WE ALREADY HAVE THAT.

Tomestone weapons already exist. There are and have been since SB (don't remember the endgame as much in ARR and HW, but there was some kind of thing like that, too...) five main endgame weapon types in FFXIV:

1) Savage raid weapons.
2) Extreme Trial weapons.
3) Tomestone turn in weapons.
4) Crafted weapons.
5) Relic weapons (various forms of grind).

The Savage raid weapons are the highest ilevel up until the VERY last patch when Relics surpass them. Extremes are the same as Relics at every step and can be farmed for. Tomestones are 5 ilevels higher (or is it lower?) and can be upgraded 5 ilevels by either doing Savages or from 24 man coin turn-ins (since at least SB, and I think HW). Crafted weapons are 5 ilevels lower than all those but are effectively "free" at this point. People MB them for Gil, but it's often not too terrible, and you can always craft your own if you want to.

Each works a bit different and serves a different audience (though many players are audiences of multiple of them) and engagement levels.

Tomes have always been for people that just want to do whatever and buy them. You do your roulettes, you get a weapon.

Now, in EW, we have:

1) Savage raid weapons.
2) Extreme Trial weapons.
3) Tomestone turn in weapons.
4) Crafted weapons.
5) Tomestone turn in weapons.

That's the problem. (3) and (5) are just the same thing, except (5) comes out slightly later but is way more farmable due to being the older Tomestone that doesn't have a weekly cap. Oh, but look what's missing - the grind for people that WANT a grind. Now they have nothing and are bored to tears.

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EDIT: The last two expansions, when we were in the content lull at the end of a patch waiting for the next one, we could jump into Eureka or Bozja and work on things we wanted that were current. We could even do Bozja AND Eureka.

That was the difference. Now, I've done most of what I care for in Eureka (have all the relics for the Jobs I play) and Bozja. So now what? Oh, RIGHT: Nothing. Because there's nothing else to do to make current progress if you aren't a Savage or Ultimate raider with a static or braving PF. And even now PF groups aren't making well because of how long in the tooth THAT content is since it's nearly 8 months old now.

Hell, I even went back and finished all the sidequests in the game for past expansions. I've done all the way up through ShB. Yes. ALL of them. (I did a lot of them on DRK. Seemed pretty fitting given the Job lore/story, actually... XD)

[VelKallor]

Renathras: thank you for that encouragement, I may indeed have at it again soon..just one small reservation

Eureka is hopping most days during general peek times

This does vary from server to server. Ill take a look and see what Kujata has to offer...or other servers in the datacentre.

[Renathras]

Renathras: thank you for that encouragement, I may indeed have at it again soon..just one small reservation



This does vary from server to server. Ill take a look and see what Kujata has to offer...or other servers in the datacentre.

I think the big thing with Eureka is you get what you put into it. If you just keep your head down and wait for spawns, you'll get there eventually. But by far the best way for me was to be talkative in /shout and join parties when people were doing prep parties/NM spawns and just roll with it. But either way, it's absolutely doable now if you want to do it.

I used to recommend Primal Forays for Primal DC, but it disbanded/got deleted. The Help Lines Discord is good, though, from what experience I've had with them (and I think may cover more DCs). And worse case scenario: We have DC travel now. \o/

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Eureka was pain and Bozja was also soul sucking for getting more than one weapon. And the shb relic weapons really didn't look good enough for the effort they required imo.
I am playing pretty casually lately so EW relic suits me fine. I have 2 weapons up to date so far and working on a third. And they already look better than shb ones.
Personally much prefer this to another zone or 60 fate grind. It was just boring. At least I can do pvp and other stuff I actually like and get the tomes for my relic.

[LaylaTsarra]

Eureka was pain and Bozja was also soul sucking for getting more than one weapon. And the shb relic weapons really didn't look good enough for the effort they required imo.
I am playing pretty casually lately so EW relic suits me fine. I have 2 weapons up to date so far and working on a third. And they already look better than shb ones.
Personally much prefer this to another zone or 60 fate grind. It was just boring. At least I can do pvp and other stuff I actually like and get the tomes for my relic.

Yes they were a lot of work but it kept people busy which is what the main complaints are about. You got to love it though given how both Eureka and Bozja were so badly accepted on this forum that now they're what relics should be about.

Personally given we have no exploratory zones I have no issues with what we're getting I'd rather not do what we had to do pre exploratory zones. Just busy work running old content wasn't all that fun in my opinion.

I honestly hope the blowback on this relic will get them to give us exploratory zones again.