Relic News - 6.45

[Troxbark]

This is actually depressing news. It baffles me how they cant just have you do variant or criterion dungeons for a relic step which that would help keep that content somewhat relevant.

Because the casuals literally can't complete the content.

[Absimiliard]

Because the casuals literally can't complete the content.

This isn't a casual thing. This is an SE being lazy (or, alternatively, FFXIV being left with a skeleton crew) thing. Plenty of casual players do go out and complete the content, though sometimes not in what you might call a timely manner. The ultra-casual, do nothing but sit in a venue all day sorts, on the other hand...

[Jeeqbit]

I see their intention with this, but 1500 tomestone grinds just don't make it the sort of grind it has been in other expansions and therefore you can't consider it a "weapon you worked hard for".

When someone has an ARR relic, a Eureka relic, a Bozja relic, and to a certain extent an anima relic (which is quicker now that it's been nerfed so much but still more effort), you know just how much work that person put in to get it. All the raids, trials, dungeons and farming the person did for it, and that to get it yourself, means you have to put in that work too.

When you see that someone has a Manderville weapon, you know that they spent about 1 minute getting it. It almost doesn't make sense to not have it.

This is an SE being lazy (or, alternatively, FFXIV being left with a skeleton crew) thing.

That isn't it. Obviously, they don't want to force players to do content that they don't want to do, and by making it use tomestones which come from almost all content, they allow you to get the weapon just by doing the content you're doing anyway and, presumably, enjoy doing. It's just that as I explained, it doesn't achieve nearly the same effect as previous relics.

[Absimiliard]

That isn't it. Obviously, they don't want to force players to do content that they don't want to do, and by making it use tomestones which come from almost all content, they allow you to get the weapon just by doing the content you're doing anyway and, presumably, enjoy doing. It's just that as I explained, it doesn't achieve nearly the same effect as previous relics.

I do not entirely agree with this assessment. It's definitely partly the result of things having to be scaled back. We've got too much evidence to that effect for us to simply disregard it. That said, I do think it's probably also the result of people crying so much because they had to do actual content in exchange for powerful equipment, instead of grinding a few dungeons. The problem was that the ones crying were a minority. Most of us were fine with the old relics. We liked putting in so much time and being rewarded with a BiS piece of gear at the end of it. But now? Now they're easy to get, and they suck.

The Manderville relics really add nothing substantive to the game. They're literally just a handout for doing what you would have already. The only even mildly inconvenient aspect of them is having to endure the Manderville quests, but it seems like a good deal of people actually like them for some reason I can't comprehend. It's a zero effort "reward" with stats so low it might as well not have been added to the game at all.

[Ath192]

That isn't it. Obviously, they don't want to force players to do content that they don't want to do, and by making it use tomestones which come from almost all content, they allow you to get the weapon just by doing the content you're doing anyway and, presumably, enjoy doing. It's just that as I explained, it doesn't achieve nearly the same effect as previous relics.

How about they just give a giant middle finger to the players? TBH I'd feel the same way I do now anyways.

[Skivvy]

Because the casuals literally can't complete the content.

From what I've heard, Criterion dungeon seems to be a a bit overtuned for the difficulty level they were claiming it to be, but the variant level is pretty darn casual.

But even if the relics were to be tied to something that base-level casuals can't complete, is that really such a bad thing? If you're not even attempting harder content, a tome weapon (which I guess the relic currently is, but I digress....) or a crafted weapon is more than enough to get you through the game. And I say this as someone who has only ever completed two EX-trials while current and pretty much ignores harder content.

Relic weapons should be something that actually take time and effort, give people a goal to work towards. They shouldn't be something handed out for simply running your dailies. Sadly, this game lacks so much depth, and it's disheartening that this seems to be the best they're able to come up with these days.

[Renathras]

But even if the relics were to be tied to something that base-level casuals can't complete, is that really such a bad thing?

Yes, it is a bad thing.

For people that want hard and grindy high level organized party combat, there's Savage weapons. Having Criterion Relics would be redundant since the people who have statics or like trying their luck with the PF already have Savage weapons. Like I love PotD, HoH, etc, but I don't have statics. So I solo them when I feel like it.

Past Relics worked that way. You could either solo/DF them (ARR/HW) or pick up groups on the fly in exploration zones (Eureka/Bozja). None ever required statics or organized parties to do. Those were options people could do, but they were entirely doable for non-static players, which is the majority of the playerbase. Difficulty was substituted for persistence. Instead of mastering hard fights for a Savage weapon, you have to have knowledge of the steps and dogged dedication to the grind. Both were challenging in their own way as they had to be worked for. It's like comparing a star athlete who works super hard for a decade to amass some millions to retire on to the nose-to-the-grindstone tradesman who works 50 years to achieve the same general result.

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Also, the argument "you don't need it, why do you want it" is and always has been stupid. There's no content you're worse off having better gear, no content in the game (aside from MAYBE Ultimates after the expansion is over) need BiS to complete, and the entire point of an MMO is bettering, improving, and strengthening your character, which is tied to gear.

Asking "Why do you want good gear, if you aren't raiding?" is like asking "Why do you work out, if you aren't going to run a marathon?"; there are reasons to do and have these things besides doing Savage content. It's never been a good question to ask.

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The people this is probably going to annoy the most are folks like me who love the Eureka/Bozja content or even the ARR/HW Relic grinds. Raiders have their Savages and Ultimates, hyper-casuals have their Limsa Aetherite. We in the middle have nothing right now, and it sucks. I knew when they said they weren't doing an Exploration zone this expansion, it was going to suck. But with even longer patch cycles/content drought and nothing like that to grind on...it's sucking a lot more than I anticipated. And no, Island Sweatshop ain't it for me.

Here's hoping they and all the anti-Eureka/Boaja people have learned how much this sucks and we can go back to that content next expansion. It really helps during the content drought periods to have stuff like that to grind and farm.

[DixieBellOCE]

Also, the argument "you don't need it, why do you want it" is and always has been stupid. There's no content you're worse off having better gear, no content in the game (aside from MAYBE Ultimates after the expansion is over) need BiS to complete, and the entire point of an MMO is bettering, improving, and strengthening your character, which is tied to gear.

Asking "Why do you want good gear, if you aren't raiding?" is like asking "Why do you work out, if you aren't going to run a marathon?"; there are reasons to do and have these things besides doing Savage content. It's never been a good question to ask

It is a fair question.

What content in this game does a casual player need more than a marketboard (Or even last TIERS marketboard) gear to complete?

Unless you are specifically doing a current ex/savage/ultimate on release then new gear literally means NOTHING.

Yes getting upgrades is nice, and everyone should get them. But rewards come at the cost of putting in effort, a relic should not be practically free.
(Personally i believe the relics should be higher ilvl than savage, they come out 20-30 weeks after... Is it such a bad thing for relics to be BiS for the last quarter of a savage patch cycle?)

[VelKallor]

What content in this game does a casual player need more than a marketboard (Or even last TIERS marketboard) gear to complete?

Whatever it is, it isnt your call to decide either way.

Unless you are specifically doing a current ex/savage/ultimate on release then new gear literally means NOTHING.

FF 14 is not raid or die, nor is it raid centric, never has been. Id suggest you focus more on your own gameplay, and less on what others do or dont have.

[Tint]

What content in this game does a casual player need more than a marketboard (Or even last TIERS marketboard) gear to complete?

Unless you are specifically doing a current ex/savage/ultimate on release then new gear literally means NOTHING.

Weell I like grinding content. For example uhm... relic weapons!

And to be able to grind more efficient I need a better weapon.

So yes, having new gear actually means something to me, even when I don't do ex/savage/ultimates.

Or... I would like to at least because:

FF 14 is not raid or die, nor is it raid centric, never has been. Id suggest you focus more on your own gameplay, and less on what others do or dont have.

Actually it is. The whole gear system is centered about raiding.

The best gear comes from the raids. And the seconds best gear just gets dumped into your inventory for doing 5 expert roulettes a week (less than 2 hours gameplay). And if you came late the catch up patch will cover you with gear from the 24 man raid. Even the term catch up patch we use basically means that we are able to catch up to join the savage raid.

The whole gearing system needs a rework. Not everyone is interested in raiding. And yes, this game pretents to be non raid centric. But actually it is.

I don't want to raid. I want to grind my relic weapons, do Criterion dungeons and get a worthwile reward for it, have my gear to mean something in content like Deep Dungeons and Exploratory Zones.