FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[ForsakenRoe]

(obnoxious bump to keep thread relevant)

It'd be neat to see what other sites think, though I'm not too fond of r/ffxivdiscussion. No beef or anything, I just don't agree with their general takes. They recognize that something is wrong with job design at least, which is well... not exactly a daring opinion to have anymore.

I guess the 2 minute meta exacerbated the issue to the point it's visible to every role that something's up with the encounter design. And with people paying a bit more attention to class design/encounter design, stuff that was not as apparent originally, became more apparent because of the heightened attention people started paying.

Might link the thread on the main sub later if I can think of a way to word it. It's also been posted in MrHappy's Q+A submissions, so it might get read about on the next Mondays with MrHappy episode. That'd be a nice amount of traction for the thread, and a whole video worth of content for him, so I think that's a win-win situation. Also got a few people from a streamer's chat to come in and give their takes (including the streamer). Couldn't think of a way to broach the subject with Zepla's chat though, that was the big one I was hoping to reach, but I've never actually sent a message in her chat (only 4 gift subs for the mount event), so yeh it'd be kinda awkward. Not to mention, she's having fun on Genshin, not thinking about FFXIV, and I feel like making her think about 'current state of the game' would just be a source of frustration

[fulminating]

Ty, numbers are numbers, but some people find them kind of tricky to abstract- for ease of parsing them, it might be helpful to have some kind of bar chart just with the average scores. It could use the role colours for an all in one one or the fforbidden calculator site scheme if being all on the same chart would be more helpful.

E: don’t worry too much about it if it’s tricky though, excel and the like are annoying to use at the best of times

[ForsakenRoe]

Ty, numbers are numbers, but some people find them kind of tricky to abstract- for ease of parsing them, it might be helpful to have some kind of bar chart just with the average scores.

Could be cool to have this if possible, because while we can see eg WHM is at 5/10 average, we can't see the exact reasoning. Maybe it's an even spread, maybe the 'majority' of votes are below 5, and there's a small amount of diehard 10/10 voters that are dragging the average way up. Or vice versa, maybe it's a ton of 1/10 spitevoters dragging it way down. Being able to see which side of the average 'the majority' of votes trend would be interesting to see.

Also shameless bump

[ty_taurus]

Ty, numbers are numbers, but some people find them kind of tricky to abstract- for ease of parsing them, it might be helpful to have some kind of bar chart just with the average scores. It could use the role colours for an all in one one or the fforbidden calculator site scheme if being all on the same chart would be more helpful.

E: don’t worry too much about it if it’s tricky though, excel and the like are annoying to use at the best of times

I tried to include graphs like that, but there isn’t a good way to do it on google sheets. The best option would look misleading, as instead of showing how many votes were a 1, a 2 a 3, etc… it would show you how many votes were between 0.0 and 1.0, between 1.1 and 2.0, etc. So I decided against including that.

Instead, if you return to the actual form for each job, you should have the option to view results, and not only will you be able to see those graphs the way you describe (love that google forms displays info that way but google sheets doesn’t have a similar option), but you’ll also be able to see what percentage of players selected which categories to see more of/less of.

Those results can only be viewed one at a time, it doesn’t show the average, median, and mode values for the 1-10 ranges, and reading through the written feedback is less clear. So the spreadsheets still help communicate that info.

[ty_taurus]

On a separate note, I did some calculating of the average scores for all jobs of each role, compared those values to one another, and also calculated the average score of all EW jobs... I can go back after this and add the role values to each spreadsheet, but I can't include the total EW values since all the information is on separate sheets, and having them all in one place caused the sheet to crash last time. Keep in mind this is from static data right now as of 4.22.2023 and may change over time if more submissions come in.

Scores range from 1 to 10

Last Place: Healers
- Average score: 4.85/10

4th Place: Physical Ranged DPS
- Average Score: 6.6/10

3rd Place: Tanks
- Average Score: 6.8/10

2nd Place: Magical Ranged DPS
- Average Score: 6.92/10 (This actually didn't change whether or not I included Blue Mage. Without BLU it was a flat 6.2, and with BLU it was a 6.915)

1st Place: Melee DPS
- Average Score: 7.38/10

Total Average Endwalker Job Satisfaction at this time:
- 6.51/10

[Maltothoris]

Man gotta love looking at those scores. The dps and tanks are all at least in the upper 60s as a D to C - range while healers are flatly in the f range being a considerable margin behind the next highest.

[ty_taurus]

I tried to include graphs like that, but there isn’t a good way to do it on google sheets. The best option would look misleading, as instead of showing how many votes were a 1, a 2 a 3, etc… it would show you how many votes were between 0.0 and 1.0, between 1.1 and 2.0, etc. So I decided against including that.

Instead, if you return to the actual form for each job, you should have the option to view results, and not only will you be able to see those graphs the way you describe (love that google forms displays info that way but google sheets doesn’t have a similar option), but you’ll also be able to see what percentage of players selected which categories to see more of/less of.

Those results can only be viewed one at a time, it doesn’t show the average, median, and mode values for the 1-10 ranges, and reading through the written feedback is less clear. So the spreadsheets still help communicate that info.

To give an example of just how unhelpful my options are on Google Sheets for displaying those graphs, this was the best I could manage to create to showcase how each job is scored:



It's not terrible, really, but you can only see the count of how many votes are for each value by mousing-over each individual column. Now compare that to the forms results tab:



Returning to the google forms for that info is just better.

[VentVanitas]

2nd Place: Magical Ranged DPS
- Average Score: 6.92/10

Surprising, I was expecting tank to take second place. Though looking at this now it's insane to think that if SMN wasn't the way it were, caster could've potentially been the best rated role here.

1st Place: Melee DPS
- Average Score: 7.38/10

To absolutely no one's surprise. Meleewalker moment.

[ForsakenRoe]

SMN really do be dragging the caster role down with it. Even BLU's pretty alright, and that's probably the most divisive job in the entire game, given that it cannot actually play some of the content in the game (come on yoshi, BLU-reka, BLU-DD, BLU-COB and BLU-WU when)

[Aravell]

SMN really do be dragging the caster role down with it. Even BLU's pretty alright, and that's probably the most divisive job in the entire game, given that it cannot actually play some of the content in the game (come on yoshi, BLU-reka, BLU-DD, BLU-COB and BLU-WU when)

As much fun as BLU ultimates would be, unfortunately BLUWU is completely impossible due to the melee and healer LB requirements. It's really sad that they don't allow us to do BLUCOB though, they can even remove the current clear rewards if they think it would be way too easy with BLU (even though the difficulty isn't that high anymore), I'd just have fun getting some friends and running the fight with all BLU.