FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[fulminating]

It was posted to that reddit on page 3

[ty_taurus]

It was posted to reddit twice actually, once was literally just the link to this thread, and the other is the one on page 3. Neither of those were by me and I feel awkward about reposting it again.

[VentVanitas]

(obnoxious bump to keep thread relevant)

It'd be neat to see what other sites think, though I'm not too fond of r/ffxivdiscussion. No beef or anything, I just don't agree with their general takes. They recognize that something is wrong with job design at least, which is well... not exactly a daring opinion to have anymore.

[ForsakenRoe]

(obnoxious bump to keep thread relevant)

It'd be neat to see what other sites think, though I'm not too fond of r/ffxivdiscussion. No beef or anything, I just don't agree with their general takes. They recognize that something is wrong with job design at least, which is well... not exactly a daring opinion to have anymore.

I guess the 2 minute meta exacerbated the issue to the point it's visible to every role that something's up with the encounter design. And with people paying a bit more attention to class design/encounter design, stuff that was not as apparent originally, became more apparent because of the heightened attention people started paying.

Might link the thread on the main sub later if I can think of a way to word it. It's also been posted in MrHappy's Q+A submissions, so it might get read about on the next Mondays with MrHappy episode. That'd be a nice amount of traction for the thread, and a whole video worth of content for him, so I think that's a win-win situation. Also got a few people from a streamer's chat to come in and give their takes (including the streamer). Couldn't think of a way to broach the subject with Zepla's chat though, that was the big one I was hoping to reach, but I've never actually sent a message in her chat (only 4 gift subs for the mount event), so yeh it'd be kinda awkward. Not to mention, she's having fun on Genshin, not thinking about FFXIV, and I feel like making her think about 'current state of the game' would just be a source of frustration

[fulminating]

Ty, numbers are numbers, but some people find them kind of tricky to abstract- for ease of parsing them, it might be helpful to have some kind of bar chart just with the average scores. It could use the role colours for an all in one one or the fforbidden calculator site scheme if being all on the same chart would be more helpful.

E: don’t worry too much about it if it’s tricky though, excel and the like are annoying to use at the best of times

[ForsakenRoe]

Ty, numbers are numbers, but some people find them kind of tricky to abstract- for ease of parsing them, it might be helpful to have some kind of bar chart just with the average scores.

Could be cool to have this if possible, because while we can see eg WHM is at 5/10 average, we can't see the exact reasoning. Maybe it's an even spread, maybe the 'majority' of votes are below 5, and there's a small amount of diehard 10/10 voters that are dragging the average way up. Or vice versa, maybe it's a ton of 1/10 spitevoters dragging it way down. Being able to see which side of the average 'the majority' of votes trend would be interesting to see.

Also shameless bump

[ty_taurus]

Ty, numbers are numbers, but some people find them kind of tricky to abstract- for ease of parsing them, it might be helpful to have some kind of bar chart just with the average scores. It could use the role colours for an all in one one or the fforbidden calculator site scheme if being all on the same chart would be more helpful.

E: don’t worry too much about it if it’s tricky though, excel and the like are annoying to use at the best of times

I tried to include graphs like that, but there isn’t a good way to do it on google sheets. The best option would look misleading, as instead of showing how many votes were a 1, a 2 a 3, etc… it would show you how many votes were between 0.0 and 1.0, between 1.1 and 2.0, etc. So I decided against including that.

Instead, if you return to the actual form for each job, you should have the option to view results, and not only will you be able to see those graphs the way you describe (love that google forms displays info that way but google sheets doesn’t have a similar option), but you’ll also be able to see what percentage of players selected which categories to see more of/less of.

Those results can only be viewed one at a time, it doesn’t show the average, median, and mode values for the 1-10 ranges, and reading through the written feedback is less clear. So the spreadsheets still help communicate that info.

[ty_taurus]

I tried to include graphs like that, but there isn’t a good way to do it on google sheets. The best option would look misleading, as instead of showing how many votes were a 1, a 2 a 3, etc… it would show you how many votes were between 0.0 and 1.0, between 1.1 and 2.0, etc. So I decided against including that.

Instead, if you return to the actual form for each job, you should have the option to view results, and not only will you be able to see those graphs the way you describe (love that google forms displays info that way but google sheets doesn’t have a similar option), but you’ll also be able to see what percentage of players selected which categories to see more of/less of.

Those results can only be viewed one at a time, it doesn’t show the average, median, and mode values for the 1-10 ranges, and reading through the written feedback is less clear. So the spreadsheets still help communicate that info.

To give an example of just how unhelpful my options are on Google Sheets for displaying those graphs, this was the best I could manage to create to showcase how each job is scored:



It's not terrible, really, but you can only see the count of how many votes are for each value by mousing-over each individual column. Now compare that to the forms results tab:



Returning to the google forms for that info is just better.

[Lyth]

...

This is quite interesting. SMN has the most number of responses out of any job. The Mode is '1' across the board, accounting for nearly 1 in 4 responses, and giving the dataset a strong right skew, although the rest of the data is fairly evenly split. Many of those '1' entries occur at clustered timestamps, in some cases minutes from each other. It's curious that despite this, there is comparatively less demand for a rework on SMN than there is on AST, which has a similarly negative rating overall. I do think you have to dig into the data a bit to see if a job is actually universally panned, or if it's merely divisive to the point where people are committed to downvote it.

I was surprised at the number of responses asking for a DRG rework, at least relative to the other melee. The forums always gave me the impression that there was strong opposition to it. Not sure if that's just because the idea has been put in players' heads, or if the devs successfully predicted demand.

[Recon1o6]

This is quite interesting. SMN has the most number of responses out of any job. The Mode is '1' across the board, accounting for nearly 1 in 4 responses, and giving the dataset a strong right skew, although the rest of the data is fairly evenly split. Many of those '1' entries occur at clustered timestamps, in some cases minutes from each other. It's curious that despite this, there is comparatively less demand for a rework on SMN than there is on AST, which has a similarly negative rating overall. I do think you have to dig into the data a bit to see if a job is actually universally panned, or if it's merely divisive to the point where people are committed to downvote it.

I was surprised at the number of responses asking for a DRG rework, at least relative to the other melee. The forums always gave me the impression that there was strong opposition to it. Not sure if that's just because the idea has been put in players' heads, or if the devs successfully predicted demand.

a lot of people feel that dragoon really hasnt got anything new for significant time. Its been 1237814587 and back to 1 since sb in its core rotation, only change being removing impulse drive.
Its level 64-90 was just level 30-60 again. (aoe gcd, jump, fire and forget damage buff, aoe ogcd line, an aoe jump) and mirage dive to replace leg sweep having its damage removed

it got wyrmwind in ew and thats been it for years. everything else was just charges that made the already squeezed ogcd windows even tighter because 2m meta or qol which should not be coming out on expansions but instead in patches.


the devs have yet to realise just because you change the visuals does not mean its a new button to press.