"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Kyasunshine]

The tricky thing about this idea is that it's a group game. Unless you play with trusts you will always be playing with other people. Everything you do in an instance will effect everyone else in that instance. This is why I hold the stance that everyone has an equal say in how the run goes. Everyone has the ability to start a vote kick or a vote to abandon after all. This effectively means that you will always be told how to play and you will always be telling others how to play by simply playing with them. Whatever pace you go you are declaring both your opinion and your intentions. It's only fair that your party members are free to do the same.

Absolutely agree. Those are the rules.

Yet again. I myself love these big pools. I like to calculate how much I can absorb with a sphere and other ways. But... for some reason, at these moments, I begin to feel like a nerd (I'm talking about myself) and lose interest in the game. As if I mercantilely want to quickly finish the dungeon, get the currency and move on. It’s like I’m devaluing my being in the game and equating visits to the DF with work. Not like a game.

Do you remember this? People said they say "if you skip the story, they won't communicate with you." I thought cool. People respect the story. They love the game and its universe. How wrong I was when I entered the praetorium. But that's another jar of worms.)

[Xirean]

Absolutely agree. Those are the rules.

Yet again. I myself love these big pools. I like to calculate how much I can absorb with a sphere and other ways. But... for some reason, at these moments, I begin to feel like a nerd (I'm talking about myself) and lose interest in the game. As if I mercantilely want to quickly finish the dungeon, get the currency and move on. It’s like I’m devaluing my being in the game and equating visits to the DF with work. Not like a game.

Do you remember this? People said they say "if you skip the story, they won't communicate with you." I thought cool. People respect the story. They love the game and its universe. How wrong I was when I entered the praetorium. But that's another jar of worms.)

The community at large tends to value the story more highly than communities of other games in my experience. That does not mean that every member of the community or even most of them want to sit through the same cutscenes over and over again. There are people that are of the opinion that there shouldn't be cutscenes in instances at all, including the start of the dungeon and the pause before the final boss as well as the new unskippable mid combat cutscenes. This isn't a lack of appreciation of the story but rather an impression of "I've seen this already, why do I have to watch it again?"

[Kyasunshine]

Uffff, this is a complex topic. But I hope everyone understands that it was a failure. A failure that for some reason exists to this day.

I also agree that it would be better if these videos were not there and stuff like that. But it's sad when someone experienced pure emotions from the battle and the endgame. And someone "look in the inn" in the chat and speedrun the bosses without the ability to touch them.

The entire ARR quest chain was flushed down the toilet by this dungeon. I still hate speedrunners for how they ruined the first experience in this dungeon for the sprouts. Yes, watching videos is boring. But it's also important to let people experience the game and show how much you respect what people will experience as they progress through the story. Not dry farm Tomstones.

That's why I often hate ff14. The authors are pushing the idea of a single player and plot. At the same time, a person is forced to register a trial and hear stupid jokes in the direction of the boss from people who have already seen him, ruining himself an epic feeling of the finale of the story.

[Rehayem]

Zero passive aggression from me. I have only a desire to convey my idea and explain the behavior of people.

What did I hear from you?) The false statement that only adults play this game and the statement that children should not play this game. A very strong position. Nothing backed up. What is the age limit for this game? I see numbers related to the concept of "teenager"). What is characteristic of the concept of "teenager"? Interesting interesting.

In a trillions and millions and billions of years when the universe's age of starlight dies down and black holes take over the entire existence, those will not bend gravity as much as you bend people's words.

I've read enough of your idiotic statements and came to conclusion I have no need to waste my time because no matter what me and others say, you will bend people's statements for your own gain. You have always some excuse, always something to counter arguments even if your own arguments are beyond senseless.

[Raoabolic]

I was going to put this in my above post but it was getting long. I know I can edit it to get around the character limit but figure I will still break this post up.

If you have anxiety about w2w or not sure about it. I will give you the basics and you can see how easy it is.

Once you load in, say your Hellos, eat your food. Barrier drops. Start running towards the first set of mobs. Now here is the important part. Pop that sprint before you grab aggro. Out of combat sprint is 20 secs, in combat it is a gross 10 seconds. Don't be gross, go for that sweet 20 seconds. Why do we hit sprint? No it's not because we are in a rush. It is because sprint is a form of mitigation. If they can't catch you, they can't hit you. Your healers will love you extra because of this small button press. Okay now we are running fast towards the first group. Once Un range hit one of those ugly mobs with your range attack, then an aoe as you move through the pack. Keep running towards the next pack. Oh oh, a mobs feet were just outside your aoe and one of the dps or healer has aggro? Who cares keep running, it's a hallway, you all are heading towards the same spot. Getting close to second pack, hit one with your range attack and aoe as you run through them. Now stop, set up shop.

Start aoeing and weaving in your mitigation. I like to pop my 30% mitigation since it has a longer cool down. I pop my 15 second mitigation as well (bloodletting, hollysheltron, TBN, whatever gnb has) now once your 30% mit gets close to falling off, pop arms length or reprisal if there are mobs left.

Once you start getting more comfortable with a dungeon and w2w pulling you can start tossing in your invuln as well. Especially if your a Paladin. Okay first w2w is done. Repeat for next one but pop rampart since you 30% mit should still be on CD. That is the basics of w2w pulls. Not that hard right?

Solid advice! Protip, Arms length is a mitigation tool as well. If an enemy hits you while it's up then they get slowed. Pop that when you set up camp and nearly every mob will be hit with a slow debuff!

[Xirean]

Uffff, this is a complex topic. But I hope everyone understands that it was a failure. A failure that for some reason exists to this day.

I also agree that it would be better if these videos were not there and stuff like that. But it's sad when someone experienced pure emotions from the battle and the endgame. And someone "look in the inn" in the chat and speedrun the bosses without the ability to touch them.

The entire ARR quest chain was flushed down the toilet by this dungeon. I still hate speedrunners for how they ruined the first experience in this dungeon for the sprouts. Yes, watching videos is boring. But it's also important to let people experience the game and show how much you respect what people will experience as they progress through the story. Not dry farm Tomstones.

That's why I often hate ff14. The authors are pushing the idea of a single player and plot. At the same time, a person is forced to register a trial and hear stupid jokes in the direction of the boss from people who have already seen him, ruining himself an epic feeling of the finale of the story.

That's more of a design problem than a player problem. A design problem that was resolved with the changes to those instances. Also that's still not speed runners. That's just people who don't want to spend an hour+ in a single instance because it had 30+ minutes of cutscenes. You can be frustrated by it all you like but the fact remains that those instances were VERY poorly designed on their initial release and the community is not bad for rightfully pointing that out to the extent that the devs had to eventually fix it.

Also if you are going to take the position that people still shouldn't have acted the way they did and instead submitted feedback about the instances; well they likely would never have been fixed if that were the case. Actions like forcing people to skip the cutscenes is what lead to us getting them fixed in the first place.

[Kolaina]

Uffff, this is a complex topic. But I hope everyone understands that it was a failure. A failure that for some reason exists to this day.

I also agree that it would be better if these videos were not there and stuff like that. But it's sad when someone experienced pure emotions from the battle and the endgame. And someone "look in the inn" in the chat and speedrun the bosses without the ability to touch them.

The entire ARR quest chain was flushed down the toilet by this dungeon. I still hate speedrunners for how they ruined the first experience in this dungeon for the sprouts. Yes, watching videos is boring. But it's also important to let people experience the game and show how much you respect what people will experience as they progress through the story. Not dry farm Tomstones.

That's why I often hate ff14. The authors are pushing the idea of a single player and plot. At the same time, a person is forced to register a trial and hear stupid jokes in the direction of the boss from people who have already seen him, ruining himself an epic feeling of the finale of the story.

Why are you changing topics? This is “you pull you tank” temper tantrums. Not “skip cs, you can watch it on your own time”

[Kyasunshine]

That's more of a design problem than a player problem. A design problem that was resolved with the changes to those instances. Also that's still not speed runners. That's just people who don't want to spend an hour+ in a single instance because it had 30+ minutes of cutscenes. You can be frustrated by it all you like but the fact remains that those instances were VERY poorly designed on their initial release and the community is not bad for rightfully pointing that out to the extent that the devs had to eventually fix it.

Also if you are going to take the position that people still shouldn't have acted the way they did and instead submitted feedback about the instances; well they likely would never have been fixed if that were the case. Actions like forcing people to skip the cutscenes is what lead to us getting them fixed in the first place.

I agree the design was bad and it's good that they changed it. But this design showed that mmo is mmo. And mixing it with a singleplayer is a failed idea. People don't care about those who go through these dungeons for the first time. Probably the developers were also naive and thought that people were ready to wait for new players simply because.

Why are you changing topics? This is “you pull you tank” temper tantrums. Not “skip cs, you can watch it on your own time”

Wow wow. Sorry. Sorry. Kolaina. My bad. You are right.

Xirean I will stop that dialog. As I sad this is a jar of worms for me. Let's not talk about it )

[Renalt]

If you have anxiety about w2w or not sure about it. I will give you the basics and you can see how easy it is.

*snip*

Literally step for step how exactly I pull as a tank. Down to the sprint before and rotating my mitigation. I also LoS the ranged mobs so they run into melee range. Sometimes makes the healer panic cause I in turn LoS them for a moment.

[Kolaina]

I also LoS the ranged mobs so they run into melee range. Sometimes makes the healer panic cause I in turn LoS them for a moment.

I do this also. I notice it’s not a widely practiced technique and I wish it was. Also wish most tanks would learn to tighten their spread on pack. Just because they can point blank aoe doesn’t mean my caster can. I need a centralized target. A split pull may as well be done in 2 at that point