Idea for Sage I guess

[Osmond]

Also the similarities between SCH and SGE? I’m just looking at the results between the 2 in abilities, traits, etc. They are diverging in terms of abilities exclusive to that job, yet some tools are going to feel similar in some ways. It’s why I don’t see much anger or frustration about it cause it’s not new. I already can see them making 1-3 abilities exclusive to that job, but some with potency loss, but add in a mitigation buff or shield, but the other stronger potency, but can buff that potency with an existing tool.

[Allegor]

I really don't think the healers need to have equivalents, and that belief is what led us to situations like SGE just being 80% a SCH that looks cooler. Basic tools can be somewhat similar, but how you approach healing and utility beyond that should be different colors, not 4 different shades of green.

Honestly, I've joked a lot how AST is basically WHM but better, but it's not so much that it copied WHM as much as both just having the most basic gcd healing kit (heal, regen, aoe heal, emergency heal, etc) so it made sense both jobs would have similarities ... but Sage, as much as I like the aesthetics.....yeah, it really has no excuse, it's literally just a reskinned SCH with lilies instead of aetherflow.

Imo Sage should be, if anything, the one healer with a damage kit comaprable to an actual dps job (potencies aside) and have Kardia being % based on the damage it does (abilities like Bloodbath already do this). It may be more annoying to balance, but the concept of a healer that heals through damage is not new, and the devs have several other games to get inspiration/feedback from.

[fulminating]

SGE just being 80% a SCH that looks cooler

That's rather subjective. It just looks like it's trying too hard to me and I don't think much of the artefact armour either. So far the sage doodahs have also not been particularly interesting for the most part, but as with scholar there's definitely potential for something interesting there.

[Renathras]

Imo Sage should be, if anything, the one healer with a damage kit comaprable to an actual dps job (potencies aside) and have Kardia being % based on the damage it does (abilities like Bloodbath already do this). It may be more annoying to balance, but the concept of a healer that heals through damage is not new, and the devs have several other games to get inspiration/feedback from.

Much as I'm not a DPSer, I agree with this.

I thought SGE was going to be the GNB for Healers - the one for people that prefer playing DPSers anyway.

The balance would just be to set up its DPS kit to something like SMN/DNC/RDM difficulty, balance it to do around WHM's DPS, then set up the percent of damage converted into healing to give it the same general throughput as WHM maintaining good DPS (Glare/Dia) uptime.

Instead of making it a barrier healer, make it do direct healing outright. Do your rotation well, do good healing too. Do your rotation poorly, and have to fallback on the boring GCD Cure/Medica equivalents.

"But Jonny Casual!!" - And? SGE isn't for Jonny Casual HEALER, it's for Jonny Casual DPS MAIN, who should be more than capable of keeping up a SMN rotation. And in cases where they DO mess it up, it would still have white bread Diagnosis and Prognosis to try and keep the situation afloat, as well as some party mitigation (think Kerachole without the HoT) to try and smooth out damage. Can also give them like an oGCD big hit attack which is used (via healing plan or for emergencies) as their "heals from tankbuster/unexpected DPS stood in bad" button. (Or be boring and give them Durochole, whichever)

Just go all in on the "heals by doing damage" by making your damage rotation performance dictate both your damage AND your healing done, while you have a few emergency buttons if your wiff your rotation or damage is extra high/party members mess up, and you have your white bread GCD emergency Cure 1 and Medica 1 in case you really have to fall back on them.

Its healing kit would be more technical and depend on using some oGCDs to modify Kardia/reduce party incoming damage, while the goal would be maintaining said DPS rotation.

.

When they announced SGE, that's legitimately what I thought they were going to be going for. And I kind of wish they did as there would be that option for the people who get bored with Healers as they are and would like that outlet.

[IceBlueNinja]

Honestly, I've joked a lot how AST is basically WHM but better, but it's not so much that it copied WHM as much as both just having the most basic gcd healing kit (heal, regen, aoe heal, emergency heal, etc) so it made sense both jobs would have similarities ... but Sage, as much as I like the aesthetics.....yeah, it really has no excuse, it's literally just a reskinned SCH with lilies instead of aetherflow.

Imo Sage should be, if anything, the one healer with a damage kit comaprable to an actual dps job (potencies aside) and have Kardia being % based on the damage it does (abilities like Bloodbath already do this). It may be more annoying to balance, but the concept of a healer that heals through damage is not new, and the devs have several other games to get inspiration/feedback from.

So its ok for ast to be a fully copied whm but its a problem that sage is 80% scholar, too wrong makes no right that is so biased. Both Ast and Sage should be rework to be totally different from whm and sch period. Once upon a time sch was a clone of smn btw when it use to have part of smn dps kit just far lower potencies.

[IceBlueNinja]

That's rather subjective. It just looks like it's trying too hard to me and I don't think much of the artefact armour either. So far the sage doodahs have also not been particularly interesting for the most part, but as with scholar there's definitely potential for something interesting there.

Floating weapons look to me way more cooler and makes more sense in a fantasy game(sage) than someone looking like a 24 hour nerd with a book for a weapon and some wanna be tinker bell pet(sch). Heck people still even make topics on why sch dont even seem to fit its identity like whm/ast/sge you can assume what their identities are. Then again sch so ugly it makes sense they link them and their origins to tonberries.

[fulminating]

There’s so much animation vomit on sage compared with sch - even white mage is more restrained. Ast isn’t, but at least has the decency to use less garish colours. Magic books/tomes/grimoires are also an incredibly established aesthetic both in the series and in real folklore, more so than nebulous floating rocks - and that’s without touching on the inclusion of magic writing/geometry included with arcanist.

Presumably the 4 doodahs are meant to evoke the 4 humours, but the way they’re mirrored and complete interchangeability leaves much to be desired. Even a token variation in colours black/red/yellow/white for black bile/blood/yellow bile/phlegm respectively would be something.

[IceBlueNinja]

There’s so much animation vomit on sage compared with sch - even white mage is more restrained. Ast isn’t, but at least has the decency to use less garish colours. Magic books/tomes/grimoires are also an incredibly established aesthetic both in the series and in real folklore, more so than nebulous floating rocks - and that’s without touching on the inclusion of magic writing/geometry included with arcanist.

Presumably the 4 doodahs are meant to evoke the 4 humours, but the way they’re mirrored and complete interchangeability leaves much to be desired. Even a token variation in colours black/red/yellow/white for black bile/blood/yellow bile/phlegm respectively would be something.

sch= related to tonberries=dead people with whos aim is to take living things lives and is bitter
sage=technology
whm=nature healer
ast=future/time/space healer

Books makes 0 sense on sch but it certainly fits smn since they use mystical beasts that is ancient, sch has no identity of nothing just a nerd. sch has the most ugliest and boring colored spells, of just toxic boring of green and yellow only, how nice all other 3 healers have various colors+ rainbow effects lol.

[Nizzi]

sch= related to tonberries=dead people with whos aim is to take living things lives and is bitter
sage=technology
whm=nature healer
ast=future/time/space healer

Books makes 0 sense on sch but it certainly fits smn since they use mystical beasts that is ancient, sch has no identity of nothing just a nerd. sch has the most ugliest and boring colored spells, of just toxic boring of green and yellow only, how nice all other 3 healers have various colors+ rainbow effects lol.

Your posts are always bizarre and full of nonsensical seething over Scholar for some weird reason, but saying that "Books make 0 sense" on the job literally named "Scholar" is certainly one of the strangest things I've seen you post. Do you know what the word "scholar" means?



Books don't make sense for a learned academic...?

And also for the continued Scholar obsession that you've made your signature:

For those calling sage a copied sch, do remember once upon a time that sch is a copied clown of smn when it use to had summon dps kit before shadow bringers

Scholar never had any of Summoner's DPS kit, they shared (and still share) a base class in Arcanist, of which Scholar retains everything from except Miasma, Miasma II, Shadow Flare and Bane. (Summoner doesn't have any of these anymore either.) It still has Aetherflow, Bio, Bio II, Ruin, Ruin II, Physick, Resurrection and Energy Drain from the old Arcanist kit. Scholar never had things like Fester, Summon Ifrit or Dreadwyrm Trance. Scholar sharing a base class with Summoner in Arcanist also doesn't change Sage being a Scholar clone, so it's a completely random thing to point out and isn't the "gotcha" you think it is.

[IceBlueNinja]

Your posts are always bizarre and full of nonsensical seething over Scholar for some weird reason, but saying that "Books make 0 sense" on the job literally named "Scholar" is certainly one of the strangest things I've seen you post. Do you know what the word "scholar" means?



Books don't make sense for a learned academic...?

And also for the continued Scholar obsession that you've made your signature:



Scholar never had any of Summoner's DPS kit, they shared (and still share) a base class in Arcanist, of which Scholar retains everything from except Miasma, Miasma II, Shadow Flare and Bane. (Summoner doesn't have any of these anymore either.) It still has Aetherflow, Bio, Bio II, Ruin, Ruin II, Physick, Resurrection and Energy Drain from the old Arcanist kit. Scholar never had things like Fester, Summon Ifrit or Dreadwyrm Trance. Scholar sharing a base class with Summoner in Arcanist also doesn't change Sage being a Scholar clone, so it's a completely random thing to point out and isn't the "gotcha" you think it is.

If you knew what it mean, you wouldnt have to use google to help you so apparently you dont know what it mean either. Sch was a clone from arcanist at one point, cause it had some of the kit so clone is clone.