"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Kolaina]

next time you're dutifully following behind your tank, I hope you remember this conversation.

I’ll remind myself when I’m tanking…? Or when my spouse tanks and I’m the whm…?

Tanks aren’t the leaders. Most people who play tank aren’t cut out to lead

[MaxCarnage]

As a healer who has healed DPS through the above, this is 100% correct.

Trash pulls don't really need a tank if the DPS is decent, a healer can keep them alive. Hell, depending on the boss, a melee can tank just fine.

I mean, to even add to that, I have seen a RDM carry a party through E12N where the healers were non-stop dying 5 seconds after rezzing. The RDM kept healing and rezzing the tanks until completion. You really don't need a standard party when you have some players that excel. I understand that this was an above-average player, but it is still very much possible to carry an underperforming player.

So this whole argument of "what if the tank can't handle it" is silly. It's not about the underperforming. It's about everyone else being able to pick up the slack. Which is what this game is literally designed around. Yoshi-P even said so in reference to alliance raids.

[SassyAssassin]

I only play tank because of some cool drk glamour.
Im slow, I fall behind, you pull I will tank Im not a pussy but boy will it take a while to the point that it turns into “you pull you die, not because I didn’t try though” but look at the bright side, you die while I look edgy and cool :3.

[Denji]

i think my favourite part about this is when people defend doing it to save time... when the game makes it clear that the tank tanks, however the game doesn't make it clear that some of the community is dead-set on pulling when they aren't a tank.

if your excuse is "well it's faster i pull unless the tank cries about it" means it isn't faster because of that one little point you're conveniently omitting in your calculations: the tank isn't going to always agree with you. this is a game with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of players with varying levels of interaction with the community. not every tank is going to know or play that way and so, yes, if you pull and they let you "tank" it, it's your fault. you started it, not them.

it is very rare i have had a dps/healer "pull" for me, if ever. as soon as my pull is done (and i pull EVERYTHING), i'm already sprinting to the next. they don't have -time- to pull for me. this is also why i like playing war on my main -- watching myself just... heal myself without any help from the healer itches the bit of my brain that goes "mmmmm bigg numburr..." hell (even though my fingers are thankful for the lack of carpal tunnel) i miss the old inner release from shb because with a short enough gcd and rapidly tapping fingers you could squeeze in an extra fell cleave or two for really big numbers.

so yeah, tl;dr: if you're not the tank and you pull, you do so while also acknowledging the risk that comes with it and that risk is having a tank who will -happily- watch you slowly slough through trash because you're now down a green DPS who's stuck spamming regens and shields because of you.

[BaconBits]

i think my favourite part about this is when people defend doing it to save time... when the game makes it clear that the tank tanks, however the game doesn't make it clear that some of the community is dead-set on pulling when they aren't a tank.

if your excuse is "well it's faster i pull unless the tank cries about it" means it isn't faster because of that one little point you're conveniently omitting in your calculations: the tank isn't going to always agree with you. this is a game with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of players with varying levels of interaction with the community. not every tank is going to know or play that way and so, yes, if you pull and they let you "tank" it, it's your fault. you started it, not them.

it is very rare i have had a dps/healer "pull" for me, if ever. as soon as my pull is done (and i pull EVERYTHING), i'm already sprinting to the next. they don't have -time- to pull for me. this is also why i like playing war on my main -- watching myself just... heal myself without any help from the healer itches the bit of my brain that goes "mmmmm bigg numburr..." hell (even though my fingers are thankful for the lack of carpal tunnel) i miss the old inner release from shb because with a short enough gcd and rapidly tapping fingers you could squeeze in an extra fell cleave or two for really big numbers.

so yeah, tl;dr: if you're not the tank and you pull, you do so while also acknowledging the risk that comes with it and that risk is having a tank who will -happily- watch you slowly slough through trash because you're now down a green DPS who's stuck spamming regens and shields because of you.

[Kolaina]

you're now down a green DPS who's stuck spamming regens and shields because of you.

Easily rectified by the tank just aoeing the mobs like they should already be doing with the ones they pulled them self.

Problem solved

[Remolia]

ive noticed that not alot of people actually say something in party chat. so if a tank says nothing you really just can't assume.

sprout status, item level of gear. If no sprout status and ok gear (like one for tome stones) - you can clearly assume w2w pulls "until further notice"

[Nyxs]

i think my favourite part about this is when people defend doing it to save time... when the game makes it clear that the tank tanks, however the game doesn't make it clear that some of the community is dead-set on pulling when they aren't a tank.

if your excuse is "well it's faster i pull unless the tank cries about it" means it isn't faster because of that one little point you're conveniently omitting in your calculations: the tank isn't going to always agree with you. this is a game with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of players with varying levels of interaction with the community. not every tank is going to know or play that way and so, yes, if you pull and they let you "tank" it, it's your fault. you started it, not them.

it is very rare i have had a dps/healer "pull" for me, if ever. as soon as my pull is done (and i pull EVERYTHING), i'm already sprinting to the next. they don't have -time- to pull for me. this is also why i like playing war on my main -- watching myself just... heal myself without any help from the healer itches the bit of my brain that goes "mmmmm bigg numburr..." hell (even though my fingers are thankful for the lack of carpal tunnel) i miss the old inner release from shb because with a short enough gcd and rapidly tapping fingers you could squeeze in an extra fell cleave or two for really big numbers.

so yeah, tl;dr: if you're not the tank and you pull, you do so while also acknowledging the risk that comes with it and that risk is having a tank who will -happily- watch you slowly slough through trash because you're now down a green DPS who's stuck spamming regens and shields because of you.

If they just watch people get hit they are trash tanks. Why cant they just aoe once and aggro the mobs? Takes a second. Answer: because they are childish and petty people who think they are the big kahuna. A party is a party. People need to do the role or leave. No one cares about someone’s ego in dutyfinder. They want to kill stuff,get to the end and leave.

[TaleraRistain]

This conversation went fun places while I was away.



This makes me want to ask those who either support single pulling or believe that the tank is the singular pace setter a question. How much does a wipe bother you? Explicitly for dungeon mob packs. How much is it a problem in your opinion to wipe?

Well you quoted me but I'm not either of those things. It's less about supporting single pulling and more advocating for understanding what the capabilities are in the group and making adjustments as needed so the party can get through smoothly and without drama.

I don't care if we wipe. Pick myself up and try again. Help out where I can with mech explanation if it's desired. It's the others who lose their minds when one wipe happens that make it miserable for everyone else.

So I'm mostly concerned with the comfort level of the party and I don't have ego about stepping up and having to carry things if necessary to get the party through the instance. That's kind of what I feel like I'm there for as the vet.

[Nyxs]

oh the ones who get the strikes are bans are part of a group dedicated to early pulling to ruin it for trains. they got their methods in finding the marks. even some S ranks got hit early as well.

Lol people always try to say this. Its been said many times by gm etc The hunt mobs are open world and for everyone. No one has rights to them or priority. If people want to kill them they can without a worry in the world. Only weird people try to gatekeep them. So no,No one is getting banned/warned/suspended for killing them.

I hate that people try to fearmonger people into not doing it just so the mobs can sit there for hours till someone makes a train. They respawn. Its not the end of the world if people dont get a whole 40 tomes.