Paired Threads: What would it take to make Heaker kits "complex/interesting"?

[Sebazy]

Well, I wasn't talking about keeping full Medica 2 uptime, but that's aside.

Medica II has a duration of 15 seconds, 4 casts is full uptime. This is basic healer stuff man =(

You're completely glossing over the fact that the price of failing to maintain your dots is somewhere between negligible and non existent. IT DOESN'T MATTER. And seriously, what on earth does going into a Savage raid and doing literally nothing for the majority of your GCDs have to do with casual Timmy struggling to maintain his dots?

Are you honestly sitting there with a straight face trying to compare 3 dots to ARR/HW Cleric Stance? Again, flubbing Cleric Stance was a pretty common cause for a wipe at all levels of play, even in dungeons. Failing to maintain 3 dots isn't going to cause a wipe in any casual relevant content. If a player is in Savage or higher where DPS really starts to matter, I'd argue that they should be capable of maintaining dots.

These contrived points really aren't helping. So no, I won't test it by going into a Savage raider and standing there doing nothing for 70%+ of my GCDs. That has nothing to do with this discussion so stop trying to pretend that it does. You're just making yourself look bad.

Failing to keep up with healing that's significant enough to warrant the sort of healing you're suggesting is going to be an actual calamity when casual Timmy struggles to keep up. Is it easier to roll Medica II? Sure why not. Will casual duty finder players still manage to fail at it? Absolutely. It's routine to see players in 24 man with a sub 40% uptime on their GCD.

Again, in case A, failure doesn't really matter even if someone did start getting toxic over it, a quick report takes care of that. In case B, failure potentially means wipes. There is no glossing over this point.

Let's flip that on you:

The Devs have said they want Healers to have super simple DPS rotations, which is why they got rid of Cleric and gutted Healer DPS abilities. So the devs themselves refuse to add more DPS complexity. It's the very reason we don't have complex dps rotations RIGHT NOW on Healers.

There isn't one that's truly sensible.

One change has the potential to greatly increase the rate of full party wipes at all levels of content.

One change isn't going to change much of anything given how little damage actually matters below Savage.

Of course the 3rd and 'correct' option is to simply do nothing and ignore the problem.

[ASkellington]

Of course the 3rd and 'correct' option is to simply do nothing and ignore the problem.

Well the devs are doing that already so...

Honestly I wasn't going to call out cleric stance but, wasn't the problem of cleric stance being the switching? If the stance was removed and the dps remained... wouldn't that have ALSO fixed the problem? Because if what I read about cleric stance was correct, when you switched it locked you out of switching back for a duration?

They... quite literally could have made it like current tank stance and still kept all the dps actions yeah?

[Sebazy]

Well the devs are doing that already so...

Honestly I wasn't going to call out cleric stance but, wasn't the problem of cleric stance being the switching? If the stance was removed and the dps remained... wouldn't that have ALSO fixed the problem? Because if what I read about cleric stance was correct, when you switched it locked you out of switching back for a duration?

They... quite literally could have made it like current tank stance and still kept all the dps actions yeah?

Pretty much that, accidentally hitting cleric or worse, double tapping cleric stance so that you dropped it and then immediately activated it again locked you out of your GCD healing for 5 seconds and I'm 99% sure you couldn't click it off. Bene, Lustrate and fairy heals ignored it but it was still pretty damn nerve-racking for less confident healers.

I have it in my head that it originally had no cooldown lockout at all, perhaps pre release in beta? But I'm fairly sure that was changed very early on. I suspect it's an ability that could be implemented in a much neater manner now but eh. Personally I don't think it's worth the inevitable fallout from the large number of players that hated it back then and wouldn't be willing to give a less clunky implementation a chance.

[ASkellington]

Pretty much that, accidentally hitting cleric or worse, double tapping cleric stance so that you dropped it and then immediately activated it again locked you out of your GCD healing for 5 seconds and I'm 99% sure you couldn't click it off. Bene, Lustrate and fairy heals ignored it but it was still pretty damn nerve-racking for less confident healers.

I have it in my head that it originally had no cooldown lockout at all, perhaps pre release in beta? But I'm fairly sure that was changed very early on. I suspect it's an ability that could be implemented in a much neater manner now but eh. Personally I don't think it's worth the inevitable fallout from the large number of players that hated it back then and wouldn't be willing to give a less clunky implementation a chance.

Typical SE taking a BSM tool to a GSM job. One fix I could have seen (other than removing the stance all together, adjusting healing potencies as needed) would have been that when you exited out of Cleric stance it could have had a lasting buff placed upon you so that your healing wouldn't immediately suffered. Say... 15s? Longer than the lockout period but would make it less brutal having that buffer.

Oh well. Its moot. I don't want cleric stance back. I WOULD like a stance dancing class *eyes AST*. Doesn't need to be healer either. It sounds fun if a pita to make.