Simple changes that would tremendously help PvP

[Valence]

I don't especially feel that XIV pvp has been dumbed down since the skill ceiling is still there. The skill floor however, has been made extremely accessible yeah (is it a bad thing?).

[Divinemights]

I don't especially feel that XIV pvp has been dumbed down since the skill ceiling is still there. The skill floor however, has been made extremely accessible yeah (is it a bad thing?).

Oh trust me, it got dumb down a lot.
If you took away these easy access mechanics, most of current Ninja and Samurai don’t even know how to execute a kill

[Valence]

Oh trust me, it got dumb down a lot.
If you took away these easy access mechanics, most of current Ninja and Samurai don’t even know how to execute a kill

That's not being dumbed down. That's being made more accessible. If it had truly been dumbed down, there would be no skill expression left, but the ceiling is still there.

If you're mad about the more casual players not knowing how to play a class well enough but havign the minimum tools to do whatever they enjoy doing, that's just gatekeeping. If you're mad about the most stupid LBs in the game, that's another story, and has very little to do with the whole system being "dumbed down".

[Divinemights]

That's not being dumbed down. That's being made more accessible. If it had truly been dumbed down, there would be no skill expression left, but the ceiling is still there.

If you're mad about the more casual players not knowing how to play a class well enough but havign the minimum tools to do whatever they enjoy doing, that's just gatekeeping. If you're mad about the most stupid LBs in the game, that's another story, and has very little to do with the whole system being "dumbed down".

Do I looks like I am mad when I pretty much told OP that his idea of changes is not practical?
People nowadays is sure weird.
There is no middle ground, it is either you are with us or against us and we will try to CANCEL you if you are against us.
Be mature please, I am narrating a fact doesn't mean I am mad.
My tone this expansion has always has been inexperience/new players need these new gimmicks and stunlock to compete with veterans
Yet, the fact is fact, it hurts when it has no sugar-coating

Controls went down from 8 buttons to excute at beginning, 5 buttons to execute between Stormblood and Shadowbringer and current one shot gimmick.
This has nothing to do with gatekeeping, ok?
Same as PvE, system is there, but good players can clear Ultimate and normal players can't.
If SE dears to dumb down the PvE control, you go tell those angry mob with your sugar coating idea

[True-to-Caesar]

That's not being dumbed down. That's being made more accessible. If it had truly been dumbed down, there would be no skill expression left, but the ceiling is still there.

If you're mad about the more casual players not knowing how to play a class well enough but havign the minimum tools to do whatever they enjoy doing, that's just gatekeeping. If you're mad about the most stupid LBs in the game, that's another story, and has very little to do with the whole system being "dumbed down".

If you remade whole skill sets from jobs, with them having very few skills (so ways to play, react), just to make the whole package more easy to attract a broader audience, you did dumbed down a game mode.

By having the skill floor very close to the skill ceiling, if you don’t call that dumbing down a game I don’t know what is tbh.

What SE did worked as there’s more PvP participation but boy, could they please add a few more skills ?
Because right now it feels like playing a bad MOBA.

On topic, out of all the things I said, sprint should really be the one to change.

[Valence]

If you remade whole skill sets from jobs, with them having very few skills (so ways to play, react), just to make the whole package more easy to attract a broader audience, you did dumbed down a game mode.

By having the skill floor very close to the skill ceiling, if you don’t call that dumbing down a game I don’t know what is tbh.

The complexity and skill expression doesn't exclusively rely on the amount of buttons. If that's truly what you think, then you probably still have much to learn about the mode.

[True-to-Caesar]

Unfortunately, it does
Takes FF11 for example, Ninja utsusemi Ni is basically 3 perfect dodge to avoid any magical or physical attacks
However, with complicate maneuver of Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, and Hide, THF can ignore utsusemi effect and instant kill the Ninja which is improved version of Ninja.
There only 2 THF able to make it happen in actual PvP
FF14 4.0 has a great example too, the Machinest Wombo combo under correct maunver can zero out a 35K HP warrior (pretty much current SAM lb but it is result of player control)
Number of buttons do matter

Not just the number of buttons but having meaningful ones, cooldowns to manage during fights, so on and so forth. There’s none of that here.

Sprint having no cooldown is a prime example of dumb gameplay, you have access to a permanent escape tool, there’s 0 thought process or decision making here. It’s mainly the -oh shite- button.

The complexity and skill expression doesn't exclusively rely on the amount of buttons. If that's truly what you think, then you probably still have much to learn about the mode.

What is there to learn in the current mode ? Besides watching a SAM Chiten buff and knowing when to retreat I genuinely don’t see any complexity or depth here, again the objective was to dumb down the mode to attract a broader audience. Nothing else.

It worked but with a cost.

When I played Mordhau/Chivalry 1, you didn’t have as many keybinds as MMOs and yet the fights could be complex, because even if you like the gameplay or not, there’s depth and complexity. Moves to learn, improving your reaction time. Knowing the maps, weapons, classes special abilities to deal with them.

In both games there was a long learning curve and I enjoyed it because you could witness a real pay off at the end. A big difference between when you started and where you are at the end of the learning process.

I find none of that here because it’s just not made with depth/complexity in mind. Dota is another example, few skills yes, but there’s still depth and many things to learn.

[Cidel]

Battle high only worked in feast/CC because-

Please tell me when Battle high was ever in Feast/CC.

[Valence]

What is there to learn in the current mode ? Besides watching a SAM Chiten buff and knowing when to retreat I genuinely don’t see any complexity or depth here, again the objective was to dumb down the mode to attract a broader audience. Nothing else.

It worked but with a cost.

When I played Mordhau/Chivalry 1, you didn’t have as many keybinds as MMOs and yet the fights could be complex, because even if you like the gameplay or not, there’s depth and complexity. Moves to learn, improving your reaction time. Knowing the maps, weapons, classes special abilities to deal with them.

In both games there was a long learning curve and I enjoyed it because you could witness a real pay off at the end. A big difference between when you started and where you are at the end of the learning process.

I find none of that here because it’s just not made with depth/complexity in mind. Dota is another example, few skills yes, but there’s still depth and many things to learn.

I hate to ask this usually, but at what rank are you playing usually? You recognize that some other games can have a good range of skill expression, yet don't want to acknowledge it there. I feel like everybody here suffers from heavy dunning kruger.

I probably have over 1K games of CC and several hundreds of old feast, yet I'm still learning every day. I can feel the improvement spurs at times.

[Mistress_Irika]

The complexity and skill expression doesn't exclusively rely on the amount of buttons. If that's truly what you think, then you probably still have much to learn about the mode.

I'll have to question this.
While buttons are not the sole reason of skill expressions and complexity they have to be considered.

Sadly I cannot come up with a legit example without going off on another topic. All I will say is that I personally feel the changes with samurai. Complexity and skill does still exist. However, samurai is not as complex as it was last expansion, and it's getting difficult to set yourself apart from the other players using the same class. you're using.