The Definition of "Handsome"

[Boblawblah]

I do accept that it's your experience, but in books I've read, some kinda old in the context they were written, women were called "handsome" at times but in a quite neutral manner. Heck in the Valentione quest this time around our companion was called "handsome", like someone mentioned earlier. A woman like a Highlander would get called that.

Also I understand your take on femininity/masculinity applying only on women/men respectively, Gemina. I've seen your posts across time on that topic, and sometimes I agree. But just like men can embrace being androgynous or even feminine - like Veena M Viera for example - women can embrace their naturally brawny, tall or muscular stature too. Sometimes people just don't fit the box they "belong" to, and they can pull that off too.

It is interesting that beautiful men are now a fairly acceptable thing, and yet handsome women has the connotation of being too masculine. It's odd, why can't a woman prefer to be more 'handsome' (whatever that might be) and have that be okay? If Zero was considered handsome, would that be a bad thing?

[Gemina]

I do accept that it's your experience, but in books I've read, some kinda old in the context they were written, women were called "handsome" at times but in a quite neutral manner. Heck in the Valentione quest this time around our companion was called "handsome", like someone mentioned earlier. A woman like a Highlander would get called that.

Also I understand your take on femininity/masculinity applying only on women/men respectively, Gemina. I've seen your posts across time on that topic, and sometimes I agree. But just like men can embrace being androgynous or even feminine - like Veena M Viera for example - women can embrace their naturally brawny, tall or muscular stature too. Sometimes people just don't fit the box they "belong" to, and they can pull that off too.

Real life isn't a fictional story you read in a book or a quest in a video game. Even textbooks that depict historical context come from different times, regions, and demographics. That is why I used my own experience in this regard. Now I totally understand what you're saying when it comes to men embracing femininity, and females embracing masculinity. The issue in the current time is females rejecting their femininity, and males rejecting their masculinity. These traits are considered toxic when displayed by the sex that corresponds to them, and celebrated when the opposite sex exhibits them. All under a false pretense that this 'empowers' the person, when it does just the opposite. Civilization was not built or sustained by these principles. Our species also cannot propagate in this manner either.

You're right. Not everyone fits perfectly into a mold defined by their biological sex. Ronda Rousy is a great example of a woman exhibiting masculine traits who still embraced her femininity and allowed it to empower her. While Prince is a great example of a man who was very effeminate, yet drew upon his masculine energy to build an empire and a legacy that will exist for decades, if not longer. These two people are entertainers though. Their lives are not what the majority of us small folk go through. Reality bites, it stings, and is often unpleasant. Which is why if you're a woman and someone calls you "handsome" they are very likely making fun of you.

It is interesting that beautiful men are now a fairly acceptable thing, and yet handsome women has the connotation of being too masculine. It's odd, why can't a woman prefer to be more 'handsome' (whatever that might be) and have that be okay? If Zero was considered handsome, would that be a bad thing?

The word "beautiful" is not the same as handsome. It has many different connotations and meaning behind it. The word can be used to describe a sunset, freshly fallen snow, or the birth of a child. The word "handsome" has far more specificity tied to it.

Zero being called handsome would suggest that she looks more masculine than feminine. The antonym to the word handsome you're looking for is "pretty". When a male is referred to as pretty, it suggests that his appearance is more feminine. If Zero was a male, I think the word "pretty" would apply quite well; as does the word "handsome" for her currently. Because Zero has an androgynous look to her, it is easier for both terms to apply to her. My personal take on her is that she still leans ever so slightly towards feminine, which is why I would not refer to her as handsome.

[Midareyukki]

I'm starting to wonder what this thread thinks of the Jungian concept of the Anima and the Animus.

[CidHeiral]

[Kes13a]

I am sad I can only like this once lol

[ZephyrMenodora]

When a male is referred to as pretty, it suggests that his appearance is more feminine..

In my experience, this is more used to describe an attractive, well dressed/groomed/clean cut guy than a feminine guy. Like, adult Zac Efron is often an example of this.

[Gemina]

In my experience, this is more used to describe an attractive, well dressed/groomed/clean cut guy than a feminine guy. Like, adult Zac Efron is often an example of this.

There is a difference between being a dapper male, and a self-absorbed male who worries too much about his appearance. The latter is what pretty boys do, and sadly most of them do it thinking it will attract the opposite sex; or rather, a feminine partner because they've been erroneously taught to think this is what women want. Problem with that is femininity attracts masculinity, and vice versa. This is how the universe works. A dapper male is different. While they are attractive, well-dressed and groomed, they still exude a masculine energy. Those are the Bradly Coopers, Henry Cavills, and Jon Hams of the world. "Pretty" is not how I would describe any of them. Dapper, masculine, manly, handsome are words I would use.

[ZephyrMenodora]

There is a difference between being a dapper male, and a self-absorbed male who worries too much about his appearance. The latter is what pretty boys do, and sadly most of them do it thinking it will attract the opposite sex; or rather, a feminine partner because they've been erroneously taught to think this is what women want. Problem with that is femininity attracts masculinity, and vice versa. This is how the universe works. A dapper male is different. While they are attractive, well-dressed and groomed, they still exude a masculine energy. Those are the Bradly Coopers, Henry Cavills, and Jon Hams of the world. "Pretty" is not how I would describe any of them. Dapper, masculine, manly, handsome are words I would use.

I can see that. I just think in my personal experience "dapper" is more something that would be used for older men, and "pretty" (whether making fun of a certain type of guy, or as a compliment) were maybe more younger men.

This also made me chuckle, written by a woman:

How can I be a pretty boy? 7 Simple Tricks That Can Make Any Man Look More Handsome & Attractive, Instantly

Trim Your Beard, Hair & Nails Regularly. ...
Supersize Your Sunglasses. ...
Get Serious About Skin Care. ...
Get Your Shirts & Suits Tailored. ...
Wear A Tie (Even When You Don't Have To) ...
Smell Nice All The Time. ...
Invest In All Things Quality & Classy.

[Gemina]

I can see that. I just think in my personal experience "dapper" is more something that would be used for older men, and "pretty" (whether making fun of a certain type of guy, or as a compliment) were maybe more younger men.

That's fair, and I would agree. However, it's when males are older that they truly do become men. It's not always the case, but for most it really does take quite a bit of time for a male to become distinguished, mature, hardened, and to truly get past the "boy phase". These days, most males don't get there until their 40's so I can see where you are coming from. Pretty boys can and will garner some success with females, but their antics do not command respect so rarely are they taken seriously.

This also made me chuckle, written by a woman:

How can I be a pretty boy? 7 Simple Tricks That Can Make Any Man Look More Handsome & Attractive, Instantly

Trim Your Beard, Hair & Nails Regularly. ...
Supersize Your Sunglasses. ...
Get Serious About Skin Care. ...
Get Your Shirts & Suits Tailored. ...
Wear A Tie (Even When You Don't Have To) ...
Smell Nice All The Time. ...
Invest In All Things Quality & Classy.

That got a chuckle out of me as well. That's the kind of horse**** guys will listen to thinking it works. While some stuff still applies, this has more to do with just keeping yourself kempt. It's still important to be clean and neat, but the men I've always been around didn't need any longer than 15 minutes and an occasional haircut to do this.