Change SCH Dissipation

[Deceptus]

Now address the issues with Dissipation and Aetherpact.

Dissipation gives 1-3 charges of Aetherflow (balance according with the CD) and increases all healing by 20%, or simply give 20% increased healing. Doesn't remove fairy.

Rename to Rouse.

[Silver-Strider]

Dissipation gives 1-3 charges of Aetherflow (balance according with the CD) and increases all healing by 20%, or simply give 20% increased healing. Doesn't remove fairy.

Rename to Rouse.

And with nothing but Lustrate to burn those extra stacks on, it accomplishes nothing.

[Deceptus]

And with nothing but Lustrate to burn those extra stacks on, it accomplishes nothing.

Now you're just being contentious for the sake of it.

and increases all healing by 20%,

That's not nothing.

[Silver-Strider]

Now you're just being contentious for the sake of it.



That's not nothing.

It's nothing because it accomplishes nothing. Dissipation is used as a roundabout DPS CD for more Energy Drain usage and as a buffer for Addlo for Deployment Cheese. Making it boost all healing doesn't change anything fundamentally about the skill because the majority of skills that you'd want to use Aetherflow on would typically be on CD at that point that you can't even benefit from the boosted healing on anything but Addlo/Succor anyways and already get boosted by Dissipation as is.

So again, it does nothing.

[Deceptus]

It's nothing because it accomplishes nothing. Dissipation is used as a roundabout DPS CD for more Energy Drain usage and as a buffer for Addlo for Deployment Cheese. Making it boost all healing doesn't change anything fundamentally about the skill because the majority of skills that you'd want to use Aetherflow on would typically be on CD at that point that you can't even benefit from the boosted healing on anything but Addlo/Succor anyways and already get boosted by Dissipation as is.

So again, it does nothing.

You're reading comprehension is . . . well terrible.

I said all healing, not healing magic potency which would buff all healing (lustrate, indom etc etc) which could allow for it to be used in non emergency situations (all CD's gone), I also said the fairy shouldn't be removed so you'd have the added healing along without losing the fairy.

Basically your whole rant is just further proves the point that Dissipation is largely worthless outside of Deployment Cheese, which in an of it self is extremely unbalanced. If it weren't for that single solitary, massively strong, fringe circumstance it would be hands down one of the worst capstone abilities (and still is in it's current state IMHO).

[Silver-Strider]

You're reading comprehension is . . . well terrible.

I said all healing, not healing magic potency which would buff all healing (lustrate, indom etc etc) which could allow for it to be used in non emergency situations (all CD's gone), I also said the fairy shouldn't be removed so you'd have the added healing along without losing the fairy.

Basically your whole rant is just further proves the point that Dissipation is largely worthless outside of Deployment Cheese, which in an of it self is extremely unbalanced. If it weren't for that single solitary, massively strong, fringe circumstance it would be hands down one of the worst capstone abilities (and still is in it's current state IMHO).

I understood what you wrote. That still doesn't change the fact that every skill that you'd need Aetherflow for would most likely be on CD and thus it wouldn't matter if the buff existed or not. Since Aetherflow usage is important in maintaining your MP, there would be little to no scenarios in which your version of Dissipation is any better than the current form since burning thru 3 Aetherflow stacks on heals is already unlikely outside of Clown Fiestas where everyone and their mother is screwing up and some extra Lustrates isn't going to fix that.

SCH, out of any healer, hardly needs help in healing of all things so giving them a 20% buff to their heals is meaningless

[ForsakenRoe]

I understood what you wrote. That still doesn't change the fact that every skill that you'd need Aetherflow for would most likely be on CD and thus it wouldn't matter if the buff existed or not. Since Aetherflow usage is important in maintaining your MP, there would be little to no scenarios in which your version of Dissipation is any better than the current form since burning thru 3 Aetherflow stacks on heals is already unlikely outside of Clown Fiestas where everyone and their mother is screwing up and some extra Lustrates isn't going to fix that.

SCH, out of any healer, hardly needs help in healing of all things so giving them a 20% buff to their heals is meaningless

Hmm, maybe Dissipation could reset the CD on any Aetherflow spender that is currently on CD? So you could, for example, Indom, Soil, Excog the tank, hit Dissipation and not only generate X Flow (balance pending), but reset the CD on Indom, Soil and Excog? Being able to, for example, Indom Dissipate Boosted-Indom would be a lot of healing, so much it might even snap the fragile support beams holding up the whole 'pure vs barrier split'.

Alternatively, if we think about WHY we need ED, it's twofold. One is that 'it feels bad to overcap', but again, this could be addressed with a new spender that has no CD, and is always useful. Something like a move that applies a shield, and each time you reuse it, it applies another layer of shield, so it's like Haima but you can replenish it's stacks with more Aetherflow. I am in two minds about it all, on the one hand I agree it's not good to overcap. But on the other, I cannot accept that it is good design to 'purposely spend resources that could be used for healing, on damage instead', especially when the damage is so low. So if anything, adding a 'deals damage equal to X potency when struck' effect to the not-Haima would be the way to have 'a way to spend Aetherflow on damage' that I'd agree with.

Anyway the second reason we need ED is because it's the source of the complexity of the class. But that could be changed too. See, if we were to remove ED and replace it with a NEW source of 'optimization complexity', I don't think it's so terrible a suggestion. I would suggest having something like this: three 'Cleric Stances' that would be 'Battlefield Tactics', slightly modifying your skills in some way. So for example, an Offensive Tactics that boosts the potency of Broil by, say, 20p per cast, and Biolysis's DOT ticks have a chance to trigger a proc that doubles the damage of Art of War. Not much, but it's something over the course of a fight. A healing based Tactics of some sort (repurposed Emergency Tactics maybe) that increases the base healing (and ONLY the base healing, not the additional shield) potency of all healing skills by, I dunno let's go crazy, 50% (so a Succor goes from 200p and 320p shield, to 300p healing and 320p shield). And thirdly, a reverse of the Healing tactics, where it converts the pure healing into more shielding, but at a scuffed ratio of 2:1. So, Succor's 200 heal/320 shield would become 420 pure shield, at the cost of ALL of the pure healing throughput. This would affect OGCDs too, so Indom would become 200p shielding, This means there'd be times where it's better to purposely use the 'wrong tactics' while shielding for a raidwide, in order to also heal real HP at the same time. If the 'shielding tactics' is too OP for 'mitigation check' purposes, we could instead have an 'Allied Tactics' where it focuses on buffing the fairy's skills. You'd dip into Allied Tactics, weave a Fairy skill like Whispering Dawn, then dip out into a different Tactics.

Note that, where Cleric Stance dancing sucked ass because you'd do crap damage while in healing mode, and crap healing while in damage mode, Tactics here would not 'lock you out'. You'd still heal for normal amounts while you're in Offensive Tactics, but Emergency Tactics is there as a, well, emergency button. The objective would, of course, be to get to 100% Offensive Tactics uptime.

Why suggest all this stuff in a thread about Dissipation? Because we could rework Dissipation then, with a new name, into a super mode where we gain the effects of all Tactics at once.

edit: wait we could make Deployment Tactics into a 'stance' type one too, and make it so skills used under it's effect that are usually singletarget become AOE skills instead, imagine if we just remove AOW (cos its kinda crappy) and replace it with a Tactics where your Broil and Biolysis also hit any enemy within like 8y of the primary target, presumably with damage falloff. Like Toxicon, but you'd be shooting an extra Broil Ball at each of the secondary targets as well as the regular VFX to hit the main target

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Hmm, maybe Dissipation could reset the CD on any Aetherflow spender that is currently on CD? So you could, for example, Indom, Soil, Excog the tank, hit Dissipation and not only generate X Flow (balance pending), but reset the CD on Indom, Soil and Excog?[...]

In my doc where I rambled my potential wishlist for SCH, I made something similar and virtually ripped off from pre 6.1 SCH PvP. Something like:

Lustrate (Cooldown: 30s | Recast: 1s | 2 Charges | 25y)
Restores target’s HP.
Cure Potency: 600
If ‘Emergency Tactic’ is active, convert the HP recovery effect into magicked barrier that nullifies damage.
Cure Potency: 450
Duration: 30s

Indomitability (Cooldown: 30s | Recast: 5s | 2 Charges) - Radius 15y
Restores own and all nearby party member’s HP.
Cure Potency: 400
If ‘Emergency Tactic’ is active, convert the HP recovery effect into magicked barrier that nullifies damage.
Cure Potency: 280
Duration; 15s

Excogitation (Cooldown: 45s | Recast: 15s | 2 charges | 25y)
Grants self or target party member the effect of Excogitation, restoring HP when member's HP falls below 50%.
Cure Potency: 800
Duration: 45s
If ‘Excogitation’ expires, erects a magicked barrier on the target while reducing damage taken by 8% until the barrier is fully consumed or expires.
Cure Potency: 600
Duration: 15s

Dissipation (Cooldown: 60s | 80 Fae Gauge)
Recovers 1 charge of Lustrate, Indomitability, and Excogitation, and replaces currently summoned fairy with the one in reserve.
Additional Effect: Increases healing action potency by 30%.
Duration: 12s
Grants 1 stack of Aetherflow.
Maximum Stack: 3
Action changes to ‘Summon Seraph’ under the effect of ‘Overflowing Aetherflow’.

Of course this means the change suggests an overhaul to both fairies, the faerie gauge and aetherflow. I made more emphasize on faerie gauge. Energy Drain/Siphon becomes one of their primary source of fae gauge generation, given charges & unlocks more newly added dps action with built in 'super dumping'-prevention.

I would like to ramble more but I can't do that without flooding with walls of essay(s), so if you'd like to, I have laid my entire wishlist/rambling here.

[ForsakenRoe]

entire wishlist/rambling here.

Pretty interesting read, I can't really say something like 'this is awful scrap it all' because I have very little idea for SCH, but I can give some things that stand out to me/things I'd do slightly different:

- Potencies are wacky as hell but that is to be expected. For example, ET Indom is obscene, without Energy Drain to limit how often you want to use Aetherflow on other things, Indom is basically 'resource free', and ET would be up for every one of them, meaning every raidwide would have a 280p shield, at no cost, I assume it's considered a Galvanize though so it cannot stack with Succor/Adlo. You'd also be able to have Selene use Silent Dusk every raidwide, due to generating so much fey gauge. Every minute you'd be getting 40 from Embrace casts, and 30x2 from Energy Siphon. If the 'overcapping feels bad' issue was rough with Aetherflow atm, this would be a whole new world I think, considering how much you'd be getting, and how little you'd spend (thanks to raids hitting not-often-enough)

- High Piety builds would be very interesting with this, allowing for much higher uptime on Miasma 4's Virus effect. Gotta be careful you don't end up accidentally making the HW Storm's Path issue again. Making Piety an actually interesting stat via having an alternative rotation (you have more MP to spare, you can afford a stronger-but-costly move more often, this compensates the damage lost to 'not having as much Crit' slightly) is a good thing, I think. As long as it's to compensate for the excess Piety, if it were to enable a completely different, unintended playstyle (eg, being able to get away with just ignoring your DOTs entirely), that's kinda bad. Still, nothing quite like having a bajillion spare piety during prog because the crafted set is absolutely loaded with it, and nothing to use it on

- 'Wisdom of Nymian' series of traits' names would flow better if it were either 'Wisdom of Nym', or 'Wisdom of the Nymians'. Personally, I'd use 'Art of War' since that got removed, but it's your idea not mine

- Kaustra is a cool idea, but I'd personally remove the effect from Energy Siphon. Just having it as 'big hit for raidbuffs, that also resets all your DOTs (thereby snapshotting them all under buffs)' is perfectly fine I think. If you have it available once every 30s, it starts to run into the Tri-Disaster issue where you're not 'managing' the DOTs anymore, they manage themselves. Though, the fact it only extends and not 'applies' the DOTs might help with that I guess?

- I'm not 100% sure about the whole 'Broil does more damage if you have more DOTs up', they tried that with SMN and it felt really bad whenever there were adds that you had to quickly swap to, having to use either 'bad Ruins' with no DOTs, or use DOTs and have half the duration wasted because the add died too fast, not a fun choice to have to make. However, if the tuning is done right, it might be okay. Rather than a scaling 10/30/60, I'd personally go for just '+10 per DOT, up to a limit of 3 DOTs'. If you have too much damage swing due to 'having to actually play your class correctly', then certain players might not be happy they're being forced to watch more timers than just 'when is Chain ready'. Maybe bump Broil to 280, so 3DOT Broil is stronger (by 10p) than Ruin2

Overall, with potency adjustments, yeh I'd be ok with this being in the game. Others might not though because you have committed the cardinal sin of suggesting that we delete Energy Drain. Main thing I do like about it is that there's a lot more interplay with the fairy. It has given me an idea for a thought experiment though. Taking your idea as a baseline, changing which entity has each skill, remodelling the class to make the healing and shielding be separated out. If we change it so Eos was healing, Selene was shielding, the SCH is entirely damage, %mitigation and debilitation effects, and Seraph was, as now, 'super healing/shielding both mode', would that work? We get the Fairy at level 4, and you can Embrace your way through dungeons up to like level 35, so low level is fine. It'd require changing stuff like Indom or Excog into like, Fey Indom, but Fey Blessing already IS 'Indom, but from the fairy' so maybe not such an issue after all? We could keep that Emergency Tactics idea too, and have this 'Fey Indom'/'Fey Excog' change between healing and shielding depending on which fairy uses it.

Sorry I shouldn't hijack, bad habit