Has anyone quit healing?

[ForsakenRoe]

That's because we see things differently. And you may also be thinking CC while I play Frontlines exclusively.

<words about classes>

That's where we're differing. Not in 'I see damage, you see healing' or whatever. The kit was designed with CC balance in mind. The fact it's also in Frontlines is a side effect, and it had to be hastily hotfixed due to massive issues that were not expected, because it was not designed for it. Stuff like 'PLD can allow someone to cap a point risk free via Cover cheese', and 'SMNs can all use Bahamut at the same time and wipe a whole GC from the game'. I don't look at 'what can the class do in Frontlines' because it's not balanced for that, same as how I don't go 'wow X is so OP because it can do <neat trick in EX roulette>'. Now, if it can do neat tricks in raids, like the O11S Cover strats, then yeh, I acknowledge that as a strength the class has.

Thanks for the rundown on how the classes are different in PVP, but I think I'll manage.

Ah, I see you've found a new way of saying "mitigation" that you can pretend means "damage". That's...literally what the word "mitigation" means, and it's generally considered a form of defensive utility/buffing, not offensive. By nature, something that reduces damage...is defensive. I genuinely don't understand why...well, never mind. Anyway, the word you're looking for is "mitigation".

This is the attitude issue people tried to point out. I miss the previous seasons when LB generation was one of the cards. Bole's too turtle-mode for PVP, reminds me of high-ground turtle games in DOTA taking like 2 hours.

That's...literally what you're doing. You're describing how your view was formed...via your own personal experiences. Ahem.

The point is that you put forward a tone that smacked of 'I preach gospel truth', about how everyone was having trouble with the tier's healing requirements. My experiences run counter to that. The explanation, clearly, is that we play with players of different skill levels. The ones I ran into could handle it, adjusting mit usage as needed, as we do with every fight while progging. You got players who had more trouble adjusting, which is fine. But the fact of the matter remains, if SE makes the next tier have the same amount of healing required, the players you bumped into might struggle again. This also ignores the fact that, once we know when to use what, healing required drops like a rock. The issue is not, and has never been, 'how much healing do we need to do in prog'. It's 'how much of that healing is removed when we do reclears, and therefore filled with glarespam in it's place'.

ANY-way: As I pointed out, it was different in different DCs. My first clear, I think the only thing I had was the same thing I always buy first, the Tome ring (since you need two rings no matter what). Otherwise I was in min ilevel gear clearing it. And all I run is PF since I have no Static, as noted. I'll randomly get dragged into things by the FC from time to time, but that's generally once it's been out a while and I've already cleared it myself.

So you ran into people who couldn't adjust fast. I guess because I got my clears faster, I never had the chance to run into these issues, as week 2 onwards I was in duty complete parties? Which, by the sounds of it, means I got lucky.

Great, we agree, then. Though half-way would be fine as well. I'm honestly fine with whichever. Adapting to greater healing needs is fun and not really impossible or anything. Healers in FFXIV have ample tools for dealing with high or consistent damage - their toolkits are arguably built (GCD heals, anyway) around doing so - it's just a matter of making that mental transition and using them. Half-way between P1-4 and P5-8 would probably be fine.

You'd be fine with halfway, I'd be fine with the same as this tier. I'd probably be fine with like, this tier but +25% on top. But it still doesn't solve the core issue. That being, gaps of up to 40s where we have no healing to do, and therefore just GlareDosisOthers the boss. It doesn't matter how hard they make the boss hit, if they then make it just AFK for the next 30s. Why not have the double fist slams in P7S also do raidwide damage, as well as 'dont stand in this'? Instead of having the 'once per minute' raidwide be 'once per minute but now it has a bleed', why not change it so raidwides come out way faster, like every 20s or something?

I'd be far more inclined to believe this if:

A) Said people were fine with changing 1-3 of the Healers and leaving 3-1 of them alone, since they'd get that "how (they) deal that damage" fix on the one(s) changed, and,
B) If said people didn't also argue that if 3-1 are left alone, their complex one needed to do more damage to "reward" them for it.

A: Leaving one of the healers alone would cause it to be perceived by players as 'the bad one' or 'the one idiots play' or whatever. It doesn't take much for an MMO playerbase to write off a class as 'not good'. Even when the perception is completely unjustified.

B: Anyone asking for 'more complexity should mean more damage' is probably a lemon, assuming they are referring to the job's kit in a vacuum, without considering raidbuffing and the like. The whole argument that 'AST should do more damage than WHM' is, in two runs where the same players play the same classes, and only the AST/WHM player changes jobs, it is harder for them to get a perfect run as AST than as WHM, as there are way more factors at play. The RNG of the cards is not the only factor. If it was entirely AST-centric differences, I'd say they should do the same damage. But the fact that AST is reliant on other jobs performing well, for up to 20% of it's RDPS contribution, means I believe that a perfect AST should be slightly ahead of a perfect WHM. At 80th percentile and lower, I'd argue that an AST doing 80th would be at around 96% of the damage of a 80th WHM. This difference would close to equal at around 95th percentile, where the AST would overtake WHM and be, at 99th or Max or whatever you want to call it, around 1.5% to 2% ahead of the WHM. The fact that this requires basically perfect play, and perfect RNG, from not only the AST, but the rest of the party too, means these runs are exceptionally rare. People just love to see 'AST did better' on the 'Max' charts and assume that it happens every time. But how many runs got scrapped, because of bad Lord luck, or bad cards forcing constant 'lmao gotta put one on the physranged again'?

But yeh, I've gone through why I think leaving WHM behind in a 'role revitalization plan' is counterproductive, many times. The spec I play in WOW was in the top 10 mythic raid clears somewhere. Despite that, it's B tier on most tierlist websites and as such, it's hella hard to get invites for groups. Why take my class, when the S rank spec is played by all the FOTM chasers and plentiful in the groupfinder tool? I don't want to see a class have that happen to them here. I watched it happen to WHM in SB, to the casters in HW, to AST at the start of SHB for about 2 weeks before they emergency patched it, and to PLD WAR RPR DNC this tier. Oh, and MCH dear god poor MCH. Idiots in PF going for 'clear party, pls have seen enrage uwu smile' and they lock a BIS MCH out because 'MCH bad'.

On which note, could the reason your numbers dropped in SB be because everyone was saying 'WHM bad omegalul' and insisting on having AST/SCH for everything? If the 'most popular healer' was being blocked from PFs because AST was, lets be real, busted as hell strong, wouldn't it stand to reason that those WHM players would either quit the role and try another class, maybe one of the two new DPS that were added, or just quit altogether? Not everyone would have been fine with 'oh my class is ostracized, I'll just level and play AST instead'

Yes, yes, and my point was, locking healing behind dealing damage is a bad idea in general. And one most people (not everyone, but most everyone) agrees is a bad idea. It's why people far more often pitch "damage neutral" or "heal by doing damage" ideas over "damage to unlock healing efficiency" ideas.

Guess you missed the part where it says 'using BOTE gives three buffs, each turning the next Glare, Dia and Banish into Quake, Tornado and Flood'. It's not shown in the quote I put, because I cut it off to prevent it from being too long, but the whole point of the 'next-cast upgrades to powerful new spell' buffs is to make the heal damage neutral. What else were the buffs gonna do, change the VFX for Glare but have it be functionally identical? If people don't want to be efficient with damage, they can be not-efficient with damage by replacing this cast with a damage-losing Cure3 or Medica. They'll still be able to 'heal enough to clear'. If they're ignoring their damage skills enough that they cannot access this healing tool, they evidently don't care about their damage efficiency in the first place. Or is the issue that 'the heal-only players will be sad they can't use the cool new tool'?