Has anyone quit healing?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I understand you all and i was also of the opinion of making healers more interesting but its will never work sadly i have come to this realisation when i pf'd this tier it HAS to be easy and simple even how easy it is right now you will still get griefed by pf healers not pressing even their free buttons they have especially scholars which no offense are quite bad the majority of the time in pf that is. Sage is a good example of very good design because YOU HAVE to press your buttons otherwise you run out of mana.
Overly complicating healers will ruin pf.

Why just healers specifically?

Now, please apply this same logic to tanks & dpses.

[Nizzi]

I understand you all and i was also of the opinion of making healers more interesting but its will never work sadly i have come to this realisation when i pf'd this tier it HAS to be easy and simple even how easy it is right now you will still get griefed by pf healers not pressing even their free buttons they have especially scholars which no offense are quite bad the majority of the time in pf that is. Sage is a good example of very good design because YOU HAVE to press your buttons otherwise you run out of mana.
Overly complicating healers will ruin pf.

You don't know how many DPS and Tanks I've seen grief in P8S parties by messing up Snakes 1, despite me joining Dominion/Enrage to clear parties to help people clear when I'm bored.
It would seem that no matter how easy they make jobs, players will still find a way to be stupid. We shouldn't design jobs around being for stupid people though, or else it makes things boring for EVERYONE.
SGE is also a horrible design that encourages pointless overhealing or burning resources when they are not needed for MP.
If PF wasn't ruined back in Heavensward or Stormblood, I can assure you it will not be ruined by "over complicating healers"; besides, perhaps one of the reasons that PF healers are so bad is because healing is so boring that nobody wants to do it?

[SargeTheSeagull]

I can assure you it will not be ruined by "over complicating healers"; besides, perhaps one of the reasons that PF healers are so bad is because healing is so boring that nobody wants to do it?

Nobody wants to do it AND the difficulty gap between healing normal content and savage is much wider for healers than tanks or dps. I mean healers are literally optional in dungeons and normal trials whereas they're nearly the most important players in savage.

[Sebazy]

I understand you all and i was also of the opinion of making healers more interesting but its will never work sadly i have come to this realisation when i pf'd this tier it HAS to be easy and simple even how easy it is right now you will still get griefed by pf healers not pressing even their free buttons they have especially scholars which no offense are quite bad the majority of the time in pf that is. Sage is a good example of very good design because YOU HAVE to press your buttons otherwise you run out of mana.
Overly complicating healers will ruin pf.

And yet we managed just fine in ARR and early HW when healing was much less forgiving. Why is it a problem now?

[SenzorialBoundries]

And yet we managed just fine in ARR and early HW when healing was much less forgiving. Why is it a problem now?

it is not a problem. Maybe i phrased it incorectly, my point is that to keep content accessible to a wider range of people doing all content you cannot overcomplicate classes. The harder and more complicated a role becomes the harder puging becomes and a vast majority of people cannot afford to just "lul get a static" that work shifts and have a wild schedule. The current design of tanks and healers makes perfect sense and i doubt it will change. Again they could and it would be great but than it will go against the core ideal of ff14 and yoshi p of keeping the game casual friendly. This is the reality i came to after pugging this tier. Also the expectation was different from ARR to Now. You werent excepted to do 1/3rd of the parties dps as supports. For healer design is justa sympton to how encounters have been designed.

[fulminating]

Nonsense. Making jobs accessible to all/completely interchangeable has lead to this absurd 2 minute obsession and surgically removed the fun from nearly all of them. Where is the enjoyment in doing something right if it can't be done wrong?
edit: I'll go further and say that it's only lead to tighter dps checks and more required from the support roles both in terms of damage and general competence.

[Renathras]

The SCH drop can be explained as a result of SE starting their lobotomy of healers in SB. ... In comparison, SCH just flat out lost several of its previous tools such as Shadowflare, Bane, Energy Drain, and Miasma 2 while Bio 1+2 were merged into a single skill. Couple this with Succor/Addlo getting cost increases that made it next to impossible to sustain with, even in casual content, that of course it's going to drop like a stone in the Ruby Sea. It was an effort in futility to play SCH before SE "fixed" it in subsequent patches by returning Energy Drain and Miasma 2 but the damage was done at that point and no amount of making Dissipation playable was going to magically bring back all those players that dropped the job.

There's nothing really curious about that at all.

Uh...just so we're clear:

The drop happened in StormBlood (SB), not S(h)adoBbringers (ShB). That is, when SCH still had all those tools. SCH lost them in ShB, after the drop had already begun. So what's the explanation for the drop happening while they still had all those tools? (9 likes for saying something completely wrong...you people... <_< )

The sensible posters here are talking to brick walls and feeding people who clearly have mental health issues. Pure waste of time sadly.

Hey, I'm not one to give up on brick walls, nor declare they have mental health issues, and it's extremely rare that I decide it's a waste of time to talk to someone. But I'm glad you notice and appreciate my efforts, friend.

Good to know I'm not the only one who suspected that.

Few causes are hopeless, save those given up.

Nobody wants to do it AND the difficulty gap between healing normal content and savage is much wider for healers than tanks or dps. I mean healers are literally optional in dungeons and normal trials whereas they're nearly the most important players in savage.

This is...extremely accurate, honestly.

And yet we managed just fine in ARR and early HW when healing was much less forgiving. Why is it a problem now?

Probably because the playerbase and focus was different. Healers were more focused on healing - and had to be, given the way GCDs worked and the dearth of oGCD heals - and the meta had not developed to the point of the DPS race, parses, and so on. It could be done again, but would require that same kind of paradigm shift taking us back to GCD healing an a non-DPS focus for Healers.

it is not a problem. Maybe i phrased it incorectly, my point is that to keep content accessible to a wider range of people doing all content you cannot overcomplicate classes. The harder and more complicated a role becomes the harder puging becomes and a vast majority of people cannot afford to just "lul get a static" that work shifts and have a wild schedule. The current design of tanks and healers makes perfect sense and i doubt it will change. Again they could and it would be great but than it will go against the core ideal of ff14 and yoshi p of keeping the game casual friendly. This is the reality i came to after pugging this tier. Also the expectation was different from ARR to Now. You werent excepted to do 1/3rd of the parties dps as supports. For healer design is justa sympton to how encounters have been designed.

You hit the nail on the head. Exactly right.

Nonsense. Making jobs accessible to all/completely interchangeable has lead to this absurd 2 minute obsession...

The 2 minute meta doesn't do anything to improve accessibility. It actually reduces it because uncoordinated groups, it turns out, are very bad at coordinating CDs, even if it should be braindead to do so. Moreover, by packing so much damage output into those buff windows (something like as much as 45% of the party's damage), it means messing them up, or dying just before one, leads to a vastly decreased party damage output.

The 2 minute window is the opposite of making Jobs accessible.

[Silver-Strider]

Uh...just so we're clear:

The drop happened in StormBlood (SB), not S(h)adoBbringers (ShB). That is, when SCH still had all those tools. SCH lost them in ShB, after the drop had already begun. So what's the explanation for the drop happening while they still had all those tools? (9 likes for saying something completely wrong...you people... <_< )

The process started in SB though. They did in fact merge Bio 1+2 in SB and at the start of the expansion removed Miasma 2 and Energy Drain until 4.06 I believe. I could have sworn that Shadowflare and Bane but I may have misremembered. Still though, the job was a lot less enjoyable due to the combination of the skills being removed and the cost increase to Addlo/Succor making the job somewhat unbearable to sustain until Dissipation got reworked and that wasn't until a few months after UWU dropped.

[Renathras]

The process started in SB though. They did in fact merge Bio 1+2 in SB and at the start of the expansion removed Miasma 2 and Energy Drain until 4.06 I believe. I could have sworn that Shadowflare and Bane but I may have misremembered. Still though, the job was a lot less enjoyable due to the combination of the skills being removed and the cost increase to Addlo/Succor making the job somewhat unbearable to sustain until Dissipation got reworked and that wasn't until a few months after UWU dropped.

Hm...might have to look at the wayback machine (I think Mr Happy's doing a video series of the Jobs through the expansions, though I'm not sure how far he's done due to the Ultimate race; he has done SMN, though, I know that). I very much remember in ShB players complaining that SCH's kit was gutted then, which means (on the whole), the playerbase DIDN'T feel SCH had been gutted in SB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mk...ZAoyf7&index=6

SMN still had Shadowflare, Bio and Miasma, Bane, etc. I remember playing SCH in SB and having Bane. I feel like it still had it in 5.0, though, since I remember spreading my DoTs in some of the early dungeons, but it may have been in SMN. They seem to have made Bio 1 -> Bio 2 in SB (in HW they were separate), but otherwise, SB still had the full kit other than that. They changed Shadowflare from an MP cost, 2.5 sec cast GCD Spell into a 0 MP, instant cast, oGCD Ability with a 60 sec CD, and the duration was halved while the potency was doubled (so you got the damage quicker). Miasma 2 was removed at the start of SB for both SMN and SCH, but was readded to SCH (since it didn't have a spmable AOE like SMN, WHM, and AST did), meaning SCH had Miasma 2 during the decline phase.

So it seems, at least on first blush, that the big removals were ShB, not SB. The removes at the start of SB seem to have been quickly reversed (for SCH), and the Job still had access to most of those things for the expansion. Again, first blush.

I'm not sure how solid a basis we can blame all this on "Well, SCH lost one DoT going from 4 to 3..." is as an explanation for the decline... It's probably one of those "maybe that was a contributing factor, but it wasn't at all the whole story or even necessarily a dominant cause".

[Recon1o6]

snip

The decline started in sb as all healers started losing things as yoshida started with the "pure healer" mentality. Whm in particular got hit extremely badly by this flawed mentality. There were some valuable gains here and there such as earthly star for sch and ast making it a mixed bag but for whm it was a total train wreck.

Ast lost its second dot, utility in disable, stella was removed instead of being made into a proc or combo like people asked for and its own mp regen skill luminiferous aether forcing it to rely purely on the ewer (a card useful for royal road and rdm) Noct also got hit hard with the nerf bat making it inferior to diurnal by a wide margin

Sch has already been covered

Whm lost so many skills it had to use 7 cross class slots just to regain its basic functions. It had no reliable mitigation any longer (stoneskin and protect/shell removal) its healing was shafted to pieces (thanks to the useless confession and lily procs) and its self buffs were outright removed. It got aero 3 at least but then that got removed in shb. Even an emergency patch to make the lilies less rng didnt make a dent in how many people shunned whm in stormblood for being boring and unrewarding to play.