Ungendered sit poses, please?

[Amenara]

does that work on sitting cposes? i thought that was just idling cposes.

The slippery slope argument kicked in and everyone forgot the original point was about sitting poses.

[crystallineAbyss]

Yeah. This was about sitting poses. Unlocking 2 poses per gender so everyone can use 4 poses. That's it. This is not about the removal of racial animations, or the homogenization of racial animations.

It's just ungendering 4 sit poses. That's it. It's not even that difficult of a request, and with what they've outlined previously with regards to how they scale animations across races and genders in fairly recent dev logs, it wouldn't be much work at all.

In this interview with the lead technical artist, they outline the fact that they intentionally make tools to streamline the process of transferring everything across different races and genders.


This is them talking about their role in the programming and the specific tool for equipment.

When they bring up the issue with swimming and animation anchoring, they use this graph.


They were talking about camera anchoring but it shows that all they do is scale the same animation across similar skeletons/rigs, which is why the movements are the same for universal animations and poses.

It is really not asking a lot of them to do this for the poses they gendered. It would just be scaling the male ones to female models, and female ones to male models. Add in 2 more /cposes per character and there you go.

You retain everything we have currently while getting two more that you didn't have previously.

It's the absolute bare minimum thing to ask for with regards to neutrally gendered animations and increased options for expression. It is 4 sit poses.

That's it.

No racial poses, just the four new, universal by gender poses available for everyone regardless of gender. You'd only have to cycle through two more.

Preferably, I'd want the system reworked so I could opt out of existing stuff, but that's not what we have.

All I'm literally asking for is that the 4 new poses be universal instead of 2 male and 2 female.

[Calysto]

tl;dr - so maybe already suggested : just add a checkbox in character options "display ungendered pose" (uncheck by default)

That way you can choose if you want to use them or not.
If you don't want to see them, that's on you.

[crystallineAbyss]

tl;dr - so maybe already suggested : just add a checkbox in character options "display ungendered pose" (uncheck by default)

That way you can choose if you want to use them or not.
If you don't want to see them, that's on you.

This is exactly what I've been advocating for. Exactly this. I would preferably want an opt-in/opt-out system for poses. At the bare minimum, just unlock 4 poses. But ideally: this is the system that a lot of people would prefer, including - hilariously - the people arguing against seeing their character in non-conforming poses.

[Caro178]

A brief summary of this thread's history:

OP: "I would like the 4 new sit poses to be available for everybody "

"Gross! My female Hyur manspreading!"

OP: "We wouldn't be losing existing choices, just expanding on what we already have. We can add a toggle or--"

"Not everything needs to be neutral! Races and genders should be distinct!"

OP: "I just asked for sit poses that are already universal."

"Viera already have nothing and now you want our hair, ears, emotes, laugh, walk cycle, etc."

"No, I want the 4 new sit poses everybody has anyway."

"Why should I play Viera when it's the inferior option?"

OP: "..."

(somewhere in the distance out of nowhere)

"Men in dresses are an ugly eyesore ruining my bubble pink catgirl's immersion. You make everything about politics!"

[Iscah]

The problem with checkboxes and opt in/out ideas is that any choice you make is another piece of character data that needs to be transmitted to every other person you interact with, and their choices transmitted to you.

The current system only needs to relay a single piece of information about your pose: a specific number (say, 0-4, where 0 means randomise and 1-4 indicate specific poses). Change that to a customisable list and now you need a different structure of information: 0: yes/no, 1: yes/no, etc. – you need a lot more information, especially once you multiply it by everyone on your screen, and it increases if more poses are added.

In the grand scheme of things, that would be better used for transmitting more actual details of how our character looks, rather than micromanaging a list of poses where the simpler option is just to pick one that you like. (Or, as I said earlier, fix it so you can type a text command to manually change to the pose you want.)

[crystallineAbyss]

The problem with checkboxes and opt in/out ideas is that any choice you make is another piece of character data that needs to be transmitted to every other person you interact with, and their choices transmitted to you.

The current system only needs to relay a single piece of information about your pose: a specific number (say, 0-4, where 0 means randomise and 1-4 indicate specific poses). Change that to a customisable list and now you need a different structure of information: 0: yes/no, 1: yes/no, etc. – you need a lot more information, especially once you multiply it by everyone on your screen, and it increases if more poses are added.

In the grand scheme of things, that would be better used for transmitting more actual details of how our character looks, rather than micromanaging a list of poses where the simpler option is just to pick one that you like. (Or, as I said earlier, fix it so you can type a text command to manually change to the pose you want.)

See, this is a valid criticism of it because it would end up being a lot compared to the system we currently have. I was thinking based on the current minion and mount roulettes - which wouldn't be from scratch - and how they've been adding /cpose to stuff like fashion accessories. For the randomized toggle, I figured it'd be easier to just use a favorite poses system (like mount roulette) but that is a fair restriction that could cause issues.

It would be ideal, but I don't know how much work a rework would be in the end since I'm never going to know their workflow for this kind of thing, even with how transparent they are. I absolutely am on board with the numbering of cposes so you can skip to the one you want, though. I wish it was that if we have to stick to the current system! It's definitely preferable to missing the one you want and having to cycle back through everything all over again.

[PyurBlue]

I think you miss the point. Things as they are are unique. If everyone has access to something regardless of race and gender what was once unique is now no longer. If everyone has access to Roe emotes they are no longer Roe emotes. Theyre everyones. That's the point. I'd rather have more options for each race and gender that are still just for each race and gender. I like that me being a Highlander means something. I have things other races don't. And they have things I don't. N that's ok. Nothing wrong with it nor do I feel that needs to change.

(Highlanders are rare enough as it is anyways)

This is starting to get tangled in semantics. I originally replied to you because you said that the side wanting more options/unlocks was against uniqueness. I explained why that was wrong. We can disagree on what contributes to feelings of uniqueness, but I don't think there is any avoid that many asking for expanded options are doing it to break away from the conformity created by locked emotes.

When it comes to race uniqueness though, are poses really the biggest contributor on the list? What about looks? If poses were universal, a highlander is still going to stick out from an aura exactly as much.

This is an extremely tall order. They would need to go back and rework literally hundreds of gear sets from previous expansions and the cash shop, as well as hairstyles and certain character models before they could even come close to parity on features, much less think about adding everything to everyone. We're talking on the scale of in a couple expansions they might be able to have everything ready like you're proposing

Some things take time. FF14 is an evolving game anyway. It's typically a good sign if the developers are making improvements. I'd much rather see that they have plans for the future instead of just leaving old flaws unaddressed. With there being a planned graphics overhaul, this might even be the ideal time to work on these things.

Let me ask this, why should others be forced to cycle through cpose? Why demand something that a select few want, and now everyone has to deal with, whether they like it or not?

What makes you think it's only a select few that wants more options? Also what about the people that are inconvenienced now by the selection of poses? There is probably a range of opinions between "I like everything about every pose" and "I will not use auto cpose at all".

The current system only needs to relay a single piece of information about your pose: a specific number (say, 0-4, where 0 means randomise and 1-4 indicate specific poses). Change that to a customisable list and now you need a different structure of information: 0: yes/no, 1: yes/no, etc. – you need a lot more information, especially once you multiply it by everyone on your screen, and it increases if more poses are added.

You might know more than me, but I don't see why a custom list would require more data to be sent. If what currently happens is sending one of 5 numbers, wouldn't a list just add a 6th or greater number to the same packet of data?

I think this would have to be the case with poses especially because we can select them manually. Every time we do, that information needs to be sent to the server. I'd think auto cpose would do the same thing. It doesn't send the entire list including which poses it's not currently using, it just sends info on what pose is in use.

[crystallineAbyss]

A brief summary of this thread's history:

OP: "I would like the 4 new sit poses to be available for everybody "

"Gross! My female Hyur manspreading!"

OP: "We wouldn't be losing existing choices, just expanding on what we already have. We can add a toggle or--"

"Not everything needs to be neutral! Races and genders should be distinct!"

OP: "I just asked for sit poses that are already universal."

"Viera already have nothing and now you want our hair, ears, emotes, laugh, walk cycle, etc."

"No, I want the 4 new sit poses everybody has anyway."

"Why should I play Viera when it's the inferior option?"

OP: "..."

(somewhere in the distance out of nowhere)

"Men in dresses are an ugly eyesore ruining my bubble pink catgirl's immersion. You make everything about politics!"

[HollowedDoll]

It is really not asking a lot of them to do this for the poses they gendered. It would just be scaling the male ones to female models, and female ones to male models. Add in 2 more /cposes per character and there you go.

You may have noticed that one of the shared poses depend on the rough character height, meaning it wouldn't be as simple as "just scale it", at the end of the day it doesn't matter how simple or not simple it would be, it's extra workload, and you can live without it.