Ninja needs its knees broken

[yaba_gabagool]

It's been too long.

This job has everything, with minimal risk to dying, high kill potential, insane utility, high damage at range (both sustain and burst), high damage up close (both sustain and burst), a sure fire kill on their LB, insane mobility and escape.

The job has literally no downsides, no trade offs, no weaknesses.

Why?

SE balance your classes bro and break Ninja's knees.

[ThaCa]

It got nerfed once again and will probably keep getting them until they are in line with the rest in winrate.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I honestly just think Seiton Tenchou should be replaced, I think a guaranteed death if you snapshot at <50% HP is just utter BS.

[Valence]

It's been too long.

This job has everything, with minimal risk to dying, high kill potential, insane utility, high damage at range (both sustain and burst), high damage up close (both sustain and burst), a sure fire kill on their LB, insane mobility and escape.

The job has literally no downsides, no trade offs, no weaknesses.

Why?

SE balance your classes bro and break Ninja's knees.

In what context are we talking about? FLs or CC?

I honestly just think Seiton Tenchou should be replaced, I think a guaranteed death if you snapshot at <50% HP is just utter BS.

The more I've been thinking about it, and while NIN is definitely the most egregious of those "screw you in particular" LBs, I'm starting to think that those single target nukes are problematic overall and never feel exceptionally good when you're on the receiving hand. Now then, you'll tell me, most of the other ones have counters and usually require some setup or skill to use properly, and I'd agree to an extent. For example you have the MNK one that on its own is fine but still only requires a 2 button mash to insta kill most of the squishies unless they have some form of good mitigation (and even then it's not always enough because you don't spend your time at 100% HP anyway). Or the SAM one that is avoidable or baitable, but at the same time impossible to dodge properly on AOE heavy jobs. I'd even put the MCH one in the ballot even though it's the most cumbersome one to pull off properly and you can defend against it better.

Somehow I wonder if that kind of design for LBs is really good for the fun of the game. Well I guess it's a fun source of dopamine for the player using them, sure.

[Stasya]

The more I've been thinking about it, and while NIN is definitely the most egregious of those "screw you in particular" LBs, I'm starting to think that those single target nukes are problematic overall and never feel exceptionally good when you're on the receiving hand. Now then, you'll tell me, most of the other ones have counters and usually require some setup or skill to use properly, and I'd agree to an extent. For example you have the MNK one that on its own is fine but still only requires a 2 button mash to insta kill most of the squishies unless they have some form of good mitigation (and even then it's not always enough because you don't spend your time at 100% HP anyway). Or the SAM one that is avoidable or baitable, but at the same time impossible to dodge properly on AOE heavy jobs. I'd even put the MCH one in the ballot even though it's the most cumbersome one to pull off properly and you can defend against it better.

Somehow I wonder if that kind of design for LBs is really good for the fun of the game. Well I guess it's a fun source of dopamine for the player using them, sure.

Pvp in this game will never be serious untill all one hit lbs get removed. (well its like first step out of many)

[Elfidan]

Reinyboy has it right. It's way too good once you get timing down.

[Duskane]

I honestly just think Seiton Tenchou should be replaced, I think a guaranteed death if you snapshot at <50% HP is just utter BS.

its an incredibly sacky LB and just feels bad
much rather it get replaced

[Gserpent]

NIN is completely fine. It has *been* completely fine, going all the way back to s1. Nearly all of the nerfs are more targeted at them being hilariously broken in Frontlines, with only minor impacts on CC.

NIN is the only class that has to decide between using resources for offense or defense. If they're doing too much damage, you're not pressuring them enough.

Seiton is fine, idiocy of instant death mechanics in a game with low tickrate aside. I've seen many, many different Seiton attempts fail even when I was below 50% because a heal hit just before Seiton took its snapshot. It's really funny watching a NIN stabbing you in Guard when you have 20% HP for no effect.

Seiton needs a complete rework, as does Zantetsuken and boosted Chainsaw, but it's not broken or overpowered.

[Cidel]

NIN is completely fine.

This.

The people complaining always sound like the type of people who'd still carelessly whack away at a SAM with Chiten up, full LB and a giant red "Ignore" marker over their head or get nailed by an obvious DRG LB because they're too busy tunnel visioning or pulling back from a PLD or DRK that just popped their LB and will keep trying to kill them through their LB through sheer willpower. If you can't keep your HP above 50% and are sitting at enough MP to Recuperate, that's on you. A misleading server tic can completely waste a NIN's LB if the target reacted to their HP level accordingly, so its not simply a "press x to win" LB any more than MCH's, which by the way, will probably kill most people sitting under 50% HP as well.

People are just bad at the game and just want to cry about the thing that killed them.

[Valence]

NIN is completely fine. It has *been* completely fine, going all the way back to s1. Nearly all of the nerfs are more targeted at them being hilariously broken in Frontlines, with only minor impacts on CC.

NIN is the only class that has to decide between using resources for offense or defense. If they're doing too much damage, you're not pressuring them enough.

Seiton is fine, idiocy of instant death mechanics in a game with low tickrate aside. I've seen many, many different Seiton attempts fail even when I was below 50% because a heal hit just before Seiton took its snapshot. It's really funny watching a NIN stabbing you in Guard when you have 20% HP for no effect.

Seiton needs a complete rework, as does Zantetsuken and boosted Chainsaw, but it's not broken or overpowered.

I don't think it's overpowered, unless people actually take advantage of the chain effect, which puts them more on par with the most game impacting LBs if they're pulled right (Phalanx, a multi hit zantetsuken, Skyshatter that lands on unguarded stacks, Bahamut, BLM, etc), which is considered over the global results of a game yes. I just think however, that on its own it's not exactly hard to drop somebody to half HP and kill them. Heals can be a variable, but that's always hiding being perfect counterplays that ask a lot more effort than just pulling a Seiton.