Ninja needs its knees broken

[Novani]

It doesn't have those all at once. It is a *choice* between high ranged damage or a shield or self-heal. It's a choice between damage or stun. It's a choice between holding Shukuchi as an escape button, or committing it for extra damage.

Double stun, do not forget that part, and that is very easily chained too even with high ping. There is a reason why Ninjas are routinely a source of frustration for every other class on the field, they have an answer to everything and can take advantage of everything, add in an LB that literally laughs at the concept of health (Range certainly doesn't feel like 20 yalms on it either) and it's easily chainable.

That it can't use all these things at once is moot point, they don't need to, because they rarely need to solo anything and if they do, they have an answer for that as well (hide and run away). The nerfs they've been getting hit with do not address the core problems of the class's inherent balance when put in a team environment under the current PvP situation, hence why people find issue with it.

If it was alone, against itself, it'd be fine. As it stands, ninjas risk considerably less than their teammates for greater rewards, I mean heck you can outright win most duels without even knowing what you're even doing. it is simply over-tuned and every patch concerning their balance keeps attacking the wrong part of the problem. Note that I say over-tuned, not overpowered, it does still have mortality meaning you do need a bit of strategy in your tactics, for which I'm personally grateful for because I actually like the Ninja class - just not in PvP in its current state.

So what's the solution? It could be environmental. Ninja is doing its job yes, and they work best when teamed, but who doesn't? I don't believe all of its frustration inducing moments are wholly its own fault, something as simple as diminishing returns on crowd control effects might at least calm attitudes towards it, reliance on purify is ridiculous, it never helps, and especially not against ninja's instant double-tap. But this is just conjecture at this point.

[Gserpent]

Double stun, do not forget that part, and that is very easily chained too even with high ping. There is a reason why Ninjas are routinely a source of frustration for every other class on the field, they have an answer to everything and can take advantage of everything, add in an LB that literally laughs at the concept of health (Range certainly doesn't feel like 20 yalms on it either) and it's easily chainable.

It's a stun that's either 2 sec or 4 sec and it consumes two GCDs to perform, and which deals minimal damage instead of the 16,000 damage a Hyosho or Goka would have done with that mudra charge. During which, the NIN cannot use any other attack actions except shurikens, which themselves have a cooldown. It's also NIN's only gap closer other than Shukuchi, and Shukuchi is doubling as one of NIN's primary sources of burst damage and only escape button.

Seiton is massively overstated if you're not talking about LP games. Without the kind of coordination necessary to "guarantee" instant Seiton hits, it's strictly C tier material, mostly used to finish off people who were going to be dying anyway and effectively just being a worse Meteodrive.

Just tonight I had a NIN use Seiton on me when I was below half health, in the middle of my Biolysis GCD, and I didn't begin healing until after he was already stabbing me... and Seiton still failed to connect. This isn't some rare occurrence, this is basically every single night that I play and there are people playing NIN (so, every night.) I've also seen people killed by Seiton at 80% HP and they'd been at 80% HP for at least two or three seconds.

It's a complete garbage ability in every fucking sense of the word, because it's wholly reliant on server tickrate and network code in a game with quite possibly the worst fucking network code of any game released in the past 10 years. There are probably PS2 games that are more responsive and snappy than fucking XIV. Seiton is S tier *in theory* but I have literally never seen it pan out that way. Maybe I need to watch more LP tournaments or something.

I'm also willing to accept that it might just be because of Square-Enix *completely* fucking up the network code with 6.3. Hell, I still get severe lag every now and then in games, usually during the first fight. Sounds don't play, animations don't play, and events register a few seconds behind realtime. When I see someone derp out and just fall over dead in the first fight, I just assume they're getting screwed by that lag. 6.3 fucked up a lot of stuff.

[VoidsentStatus]

Seiton is massively overstated if you're not talking about LP games. Without the kind of coordination necessary to "guarantee" instant Seiton hits, it's strictly C tier material, mostly used to finish off people who were going to be dying anyway and effectively just being a worse Meteodrive.

Just tonight I had a NIN use Seiton on me when I was below half health, in the middle of my Biolysis GCD, and I didn't begin healing until after he was already stabbing me... and Seiton still failed to connect. This isn't some rare occurrence, this is basically every single night that I play and there are people playing NIN (so, every night.) I've also seen people killed by Seiton at 80% HP and they'd been at 80% HP for at least two or three seconds.

It's a complete garbage ability in every fucking sense of the word, because it's wholly reliant on server tickrate and network code in a game with quite possibly the worst fucking network code of any game released in the past 10 years. There are probably PS2 games that are more responsive and snappy than fucking XIV. Seiton is S tier *in theory* but I have literally never seen it pan out that way. Maybe I need to watch more LP tournaments or something.

I'm also willing to accept that it might just be because of Square-Enix *completely* fucking up the network code with 6.3. Hell, I still get severe lag every now and then in games, usually during the first fight. Sounds don't play, animations don't play, and events register a few seconds behind realtime. When I see someone derp out and just fall over dead in the first fight, I just assume they're getting screwed by that lag. 6.3 fucked up a lot of stuff.

If you're referring to on Dynamis, you're playing on the worst pvp data center with people wintrading openly. There were ninja's last season missing LB's on purpose to soft throw matches and didn't hit a single LB for several games straight. If we're talking Crystal/top 100 ninja's, everything you said goes out of the window, they rarely if at all miss LB and its the reason ninjas dominated season 1 climbing wise. The "coordination necessary" to get a kill with it is a joke. all you need is 1-2 shurikens into a 2 big cooldowns -> LB or a single LB chain. You can Misery->Whm LB->Ninja LB, Wyrmwind->Nastrond->Shuriken->Ninja LB, dry MCH LB -> Ninja LB etc. It's more of a speed aspect than dealing with healing because it should casted before that person can even realize they should need to heal to avoid being in danger. The reason ninja is annoying to most ranged classes is purely because after you get so much as tickled you can get nuked and lb'd before you can even react to the point your only safety is staying near full health and out of attack range of their teammates so they can't combo.