Dreamers Wish List

[AnotherPerson]

They've told us many times that they don't include healer DPS when setting boss HP values. If your party needs the healer DPS to get the kill instead of just speeding up the kill, something else is going wrong.

That aside, they do recommend that healers DPS when they can squeeze it in between heals. The better your party plays, the more opportunities the healer will have to DPS. The worse it plays, the more the healer will need to heal instead of DPS.

I think that's where they run into problems with the role design. The skill range between groups doing content is going to vary. Do they design healers around the groups that are less skilled and taking more damage so more healing is required or do they design around the more skilled groups where less healling is required? They could add more DPS abilities but how to make those abilities interesting to those playing with the skilled groups but non-penalizing when healers can't stick to a DPS rotation because they're with a group that is less skilled?

Well, no. The part where they said they don't include healer DPS when setting boss HP values? That was already proven false when the top parsers who play perfectly in the encounter still cannot beat the boss before enrage because there's still a big HP gap that can only be met with healer DPS, regardless of how much more they try to optimize. The gap gets closed with increased gear ilvl, but because it originally exists without the increased ilvls, it means healer DPS is essential to the clear at min ILVL, regardless of party skill level. The only difference is the amount of healer DPS required varies more significantly the worse the party is. Even if the healer heals more because of less skilled players, every party member still have to meet the DPS check to beat enrage. In other words, it doesn't matter if the healer needs to heal more, because after a certain point, healing cannot contribute any more than delaying enrage (hard skill cap), which sets a certain level of expectation for a healer's gameplay to go.

The problem they have with role design is that there will be varying skill levels of players, but because the highest level of skill requires healer DPS, that means even if gear ilvl increases and it becomes easier to meet the DPS & healing requirements, the amount of time less skilled healers can find time to DPS only increases further because it becomes easier to heal - not shorten. Therefore... having more time to DPS only makes healers more visibly bored when they press the same 2 buttons over and over again. If they want to make it easier for less skilled groups, then they shouldn't be including healer DPS into the fight at all -- but that would just make the encounter absurdly more easier for players who already have high DPS uptime as a healer. *shrug*

[Jojoya]

Well, no. The part where they said they don't include healer DPS when setting boss HP values? That was already proven false when the top parsers who play perfectly in the encounter still cannot beat the boss before enrage because there's still a big HP gap that can only be met with healer DPS, regardless of how much more they try to optimize.

And when was that proven? Are you thinking of P8S where they already admitted they made a mistake setting the boss HP value in the first place because when they do it, it's really a guess on their part based on past testing experience?

[AnotherPerson]

And when was that proven? Are you thinking of P8S where they already admitted they made a mistake setting the boss HP value in the first place because when they do it, it's really a guess on their part based on past testing experience?

No, it was mathematically proven for E8S. That was during ShB expansion. It was when someone asked to rebalance savage damage to not require healer DPS. In one of the posts, someone mentioned healer DPS was optional, but it was refuted. P8S is not the first instance of being unable to clear without healer DPS, but P8S is more of a job balance issue. E8S was just mathematically impossible to clear without healer DPS due to the top DPS limit on release. I'll have to look through the threads since this was a super old one.

Edit: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...aler-dps/page6

I'm quite sure it came up multiple times in the healer forum discussions and other healer thread posts, but I'm honestly not in the mood to comb through over 300+ pages for a more detailed analysis breakdown. Though you can find plenty of people saying how healer DPS was already a thing way before E8S.

I Every healer has at least five offensive skills, and you should be using them. You have a filler spell, and the rest are situational. These situations are, but not limited to: you're on the move, you use it on CD, timer needs to be refreshed, resource dump. This requires management.

As for AST, I can only count 3: Malefic (ST), Gravity (AoE), Combust (DoT). Unless you count buffs as offensive skills rather than support skills and Macrocosmos as an offensive skill instead of a healing spell on a 120 cooldown, I can't figure out the other 2.

Is there like some sort of secret offensive skills that healers have that I haven't unlocked yet somehow? I'm genuinely curious and want to know if I've been actually missing out this entire time. Am I out of the loop or something? At this point, I'm just desperate for anything to break up the monotony.

[Sacae]

Macrocosmos and Lord of Crowns both do dps. With Malefic, Combust, and Gravity, that makes 5.

Edit: Also Earthly Star. So 6, I guess.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

• Unlock the glamour restrictions on all jobs. Leave artifact gears alone though, they can stay limited.
• Dye storage, like our shard/crystal/cluster storage.
• The ability to change to other DoH job(s) without having to exit the crafting log interface.
• The ability to use glamour plate to swap glamour when a duty is ready to commence.
• Giving healers their own gameplay loop in their downtime outside 1 button press for 80%+ of time. Or better yet, have one of the job designer play through MSQ as a hrothgar healer. No job swapping allowed. Instead of telling people to try healing, how about they try it out themself?

EDIT: On 2nd thought I'll leave the rest of the healer salt for relevant threads.

[LittleImp]

And when was that proven?

We actually have thousands of datapoints that support this. You can freely browse logs submitted by the first players to clear fights in any given tier.

If you examine the fastest groups in the first few days of week 1 of any given tier, you will realize that even among the highest dps groups it would be mathematically impossible to defeat the boss without the healers contributing damage. This is not unique to P8S, and has been the way the game has been tuned for many years.

P4S doorboss had a DPS check of around 48.3k. One of the highest dps groups among the first 50 to kill the boss (also ranked among the top speedkill groups in the world), killed in 7:05 (7 seconds ahead of hard enrage) and only exceeded the DPS requirement by around 700 dps on a clean run with VERY solid play.

Of their DPS total, the healers contributed around 8.4k!. Were the healers to stop contributing, the rest of the group, who are already some of the best players in the game in the best gear realistically available, would need to contribute over 1000 additional DPS EACH in order to meet the minimum check. Needless to say, that notion is hilarious.

[Gemina]

Well, no. The part where they said they don't include healer DPS when setting boss HP values? That was already proven false when the top parsers who play perfectly in the encounter still cannot beat the boss before enrage because there's still a big HP gap that can only be met with healer DPS, regardless of how much more they try to optimize.

The devs are probably going to have to revisit this at one point or another. Especially since they, themselves stated that the game's top players are much better at the game than they are. This was stated way back during HW, and there was a lot of problems with savage raiding back with Gordias and Midas iirc. I have never done current savage content, so there is a lot I am oblivious to when to comes to the values they set, and the struggles groups have with clears. But I am curious to see how these groups (including the dev team) performed, how much boss HP was left, how often they wiped to mechanics, etc. With P8S, I believe they stated something along the lines that they just added like 2% HP to the boss to compensate for the discrepancy between their skill and player skill. Nothing about not including healer DPS. So I'm over here thinking, "Where do you even get that 2%?" It was obviously a gross overestimation of player ability. If I was to go off of Barb EX which is the toughest content I currently try, I would say healers without question need to DPS to facilitate the clear. Required though? I am just not sure.

[Azuri]

white knight extraordinare rambling from Gemina as usual

That's a lot of words to say "I am bad at the game".

There is a reason why you are only squealing about some mystical morals in General. The moment you show your nose in something like healer forums you get laughed out with factual arguments.