More Options for Character Growth

[Elexia]

prevent the game from becoming like XI where you need the perfect combination to even play.

In FFXI you didn't need "perfect combinations to play", those players were called elitist and lazy, any combination worked for any encounter as long as you had the basics (someone to keep the mob from slaughtering everyone, i.e tank, someone to keep them alive, i.e healer and someone to support, i.e rdm/brd/cor etc.) This holds true in every MMORPG, including new ones.

By the way, in FFXIV people already use "perfect combinations"...so uhm...whoops too late? You quote WoW but you forgot to mention how they've been tweaking the talent tree and basically getting rid of useless ones. There's no perfect system out there.

People absolutely love to state "FFXIV is a different game blah blah!" but always want it to be like every generic MMORPG that's been released in the past 8 years. Make up your minds, do you want it to be the same MMORPG or do you want it to be something different? You can't have both and I can guarantee if people want to play WoW they'll play WoW, not XIV.

Last time i checked WOW is doing 1000000 times better then XI. I would even go a step further and say XI is pretty much dead and far from going strong. You should give it a try, only the hardcore fans are still playing these days.

You should actually check, because new people are joining XI every day and when you're done butthumping Blizzard and WoW you'd know WoW is actually on the decline and has been for awhile, even Blizzard admits it's going downhill a bit, especially with their focus on Diablo III.

[Onidemon]

We can choose things like what skills we use from other jobs, what grand company we follow, and how our stats and materia work. So that's a fair start I think.

I agree. We do have some freedom but wouldn't you like to go a step further and say how about your BLM is specialized into AOE and Nukes while i chose that mine has more DOT spells and spells that weaken the enemy. Or that your War is focused on tanking so has lower DPS but much higher def. While mine is pure DPS.

With this approach we both use the same job or class but play differently and it has nothing to do with who is a better player.

[syntaxlies]

I feel that we don't have enough options available to make our characters stand out from the rest or to customize them to fit our personal style. Let's say you have a L50 BLM. It won't be any different or play any different from any L50 BLM out there. It will be an exact copy minus the equipped gear.

Even when equipping spells from other classes, you are pretty much forced to chose the best spells to fit your job. So in the end you still end up with the same setup as everyone else and as things will go on, it will be like XI where you need a specific combination to play with others or they won't invite you.

Other MMOs out there have come up with systems that let's you tailor your character to your linking and still make it that you are just as useful in a group then other players from the same Class but with a different setup.


We have been asking for such a system from the beginning, there is tons of threads on the subject and Yoshi-P's answer was the job system. But that is hardly what we asked for, it is just an advanced job/class system a la Ragnarok Online or the advanced jobs in XI. Yes you keep the skills from your previous job but that is the only difference.


WOW for example has the talent tree, you can chose from 3 different play style for each job. A single job can then fit different roles in a group, from Tank to healer to DPS. It's your choice. This approach makes it that you have more options available to you when searching for team mates. If PLD and WAR for example are the only tanks and are not too popular, then you will have a hard time forming a group. Same thing for healers, if only one class is a suitable healer then it will be much harder to find one.


There are many different systems out there in other MMOs and i think that it is time for XIV to have it's own. Take ideas from existing systems or make one from scratch but i believe we need one if we are to have diversity and prevent the game from becoming like XI where you need the perfect combination to even play.

FF14 has its own, its called the armory system. Its not to hard to find people for a party when all they have to do is change there gear.


They are adding some spells/debuffs to the existing mage classes in 2.0

[Yves]

In FFXI you didn't need "perfect combinations to play", those players were called elitist and lazy, any combination worked for any encounter as long as you had the basics (someone to keep the mob from slaughtering everyone, i.e tank, someone to keep them alive, i.e healer and someone to support, i.e rdm/brd/cor etc.) This holds true in every MMORPG, including new ones.

By the way, in FFXIV people already use "perfect combinations"...so uhm...whoops too late? You quote WoW but you forgot to mention how they've been tweaking the talent tree and basically getting rid of useless ones. There's no perfect system out there.

People absolutely love to state "FFXIV is a different game blah blah!" but always want it to be like every generic MMORPG that's been released in the past 8 years. Make up your minds, do you want it to be the same MMORPG or do you want it to be something different? You can't have both and I can guarantee if people want to play WoW they'll play WoW, not XIV.



You should actually check, because new people are joining XI every day and when you're done butthumping Blizzard and WoW you'd know WoW is actually on the decline and has been for awhile, even Blizzard admits it's going downhill a bit, especially with their focus on Diablo III.

It wasn't always this way. Pre-80 ACP had two options: RNG heavy or SMN heavy. Sure, some people used the SAM/MNK 2HR zerg but that didn't work enough to make the tower climb when it had a 40% failrate (investing 3hrs into each battle gets old.)

XI was actually the primary game (in my eyes) that perpetuated the cookie cutter concept. Everyone remember "SAM of gtfo" and "loldrk/loldrg/lolpup." Or that RDM became the standard healer because of refresh and convert. This isn't a totally bad thing - it forced me to level every job all the way up and that gave me a great deal of enjoyment and misery at once.

The point is that the OP is looking for ways to avoid this and also trying to be helpful in a creative process. He isn't necessarily looking for concepts that lock people into different play-styles - he just wants to see some flexibility and variation and I can't see anything wrong with that.

[Phobos]

Things like this are great. It seems people are thinking XI didn't have this.

Did people forget about Merits? There was actually a great deal of customization between characters with merits, and while some jobs had a set couple of skills that were basically required, that just means a system of the like here would just need to be better balanced.

Heck, we even have a system in place that can be used for merit points... Acheivement Points.

[syntaxlies]

Things like this are great. It seems people are thinking XI didn't have this.

Did people forget about Merits? There was actually a great deal of customization between characters with merits, and while some jobs had a set couple of skills that were basically required, that just means a system of the like here would just need to be better balanced.

Heck, we even have a system in place that can be used for merit points... Acheivement Points.

We have job skills that are quested. I personally don't think we all need different skills, Its how you use them that matters. Having some awesome skill and being a terrible player may make you unique, but it wont make you any better.

[Gramul]

I agree. We do have some freedom but wouldn't you like to go a step further and say how about your BLM is specialized into AOE and Nukes while I chose that mine has more DOT spells and spells that weaken the enemy. Or that your War is focused on tanking so has lower DPS but much higher def. While mine is pure DPS.

With this approach we both use the same job or class but play differently and it has nothing to do with who is a better player.

The tanking focused warriors are PLDs and from what I understand, one of the new jobs will be focused on stat effects on the enemy. One of the best features about FFXIV is the ability to change your class/job on the fly. You're not restricted to one task per character like other MMO's.

I do agree that we could have more customization however, and I honestly liked the idea that different colored gear meant different stat focus, but people preferred customization without limitation and I can't really blame them for that.

[Elexia]

The point is that the OP is looking for ways to avoid this and also trying to be helpful in a creative process. He isn't necessarily looking for concepts that lock people into different play-styles - he just wants to see some flexibility and variation and I can't see anything wrong with that.

That was the point of the Armoury system and Job system, we're not going to get a game where you'll have a conjurer or white mage out tanking everyone due to progression path for example.

Things like this are great. It seems people are thinking XI didn't have this.

Did people forget about Merits? There was actually a great deal of customization between characters with merits, and while some jobs had a set couple of skills that were basically required, that just means a system of the like here would just need to be better balanced.

Heck, we even have a system in place that can be used for merit points... Acheivement Points.

When it comes to XI people forget a lot of things because it's an older MMO. Merit points ended up the same way as talent tree type systems ends up...there's always the "Expected" path that you'll have to take. No matter how much customization or choice you're given in an MMO, there's always an optimal or preferred build that people will expect you to do. This is true in every MMO I've played including the much touted WoW.

[Phobos]

We have job skills that are quested. I personally don't think we all need different skills, Its how you use them that matters. Having some awesome skill and being a terrible player may make you unique, but it wont make you any better.

Merits didnt just add skills... a lot of them boosted existing ones or stats. I wasn't saying "do merits the same way they were from XI" I was simply saying it worked to a degree, but would need changes.

The job system removed some variety between players by restricting cross class skills. Something like this would just add that variety back in. You can use the argument " Having some awesome skill and being a terrible player may make you unique, but it wont make you any better." about any of the skills in this game...

[Phobos]

When it comes to XI people forget a lot of things because it's an older MMO. Merit points ended up the same way as talent tree type systems ends up...there's always the "Expected" path that you'll have to take. No matter how much customization or choice you're given in an MMO, there's always an optimal or preferred build that people will expect you to do. This is true in every MMO I've played including the much touted WoW.

In XI there was still a decent ammount of customization between characters. Yes there were some skills that became "required" or "assumed", but that would just need to be avoided through balance. Some BLM would merit all AM-2, others would MAX Freeze and Burst. Some COR's would go with roll boosts, others with things like QD and that JA reset move. RDM I often redid depending on the LS I was in and what the other RDM's had. Again, I'm not saying it was perfect but as long as you make each possibility worthwhile it's a valid system. XI didn't do it perfectly but there was still some variety between players and I rarely saw anyone getting flak for something stupid, other than zanshin.

I'm mostly just saying; this concept isn't foreign to Final Fantasy and with some work they could get it working properly here.