Feeling really down about no mog gifts for Christmas

[Deveryn]

Nobody is blasting Square Enix for having a poorly implemented store. They really need to get with the times and just integrate it into the game, that way they'd be able to track what people actually own and then actually provide us with gifting. Likewise everything should be an account wide unlock, it's a scam that some mounts etc are character specific (only boosts/skips should be specific but that's obvious).

The idea that integrating the store into the game somehow makes it better and fixes the problem is foolish. There will always be a need for a more secure site to handle transactions. EQ 1 and 2 have an in-game store with alt currency and you still have to go outside the game to add funds to your account. There is ZERO gifting on this service.

[Johners]

The idea that integrating the store into the game somehow makes it better and fixes the problem is foolish. There will always be a need for a more secure site to handle transactions. EQ 1 and 2 have an in-game store with alt currency and you still have to go outside the game to add funds to your account. There is ZERO gifting on this service.

I've played plenty of online games with perfectly integrated stores that don't require going to an external site... and that includes consoles. That does mean using the platform (so PlayStation or Steam for those versions in XIV's case) as the payment provider but at least you can seemlessly buy stuff. World of Warcraft has this on PC, I can buy MTX directly within the game from either the character screen (in the case of server transfers or faction changes) and when logged into a character for mounts etc. I'm pretty sure you can even buy buy expansions and subscription from the game client itself (not to mention the launcher has this functionality also). As for other games, titles like FIFA, Destiny 2, GTA Online allow you to buy the additional cash store stuff in-game (FIFA is just buying FIFA points from the platform store and then spending in-game).


If you hold XIV to the same standard as other actively developed online games, there's many areas where Square Enix falls short but still wants expansion costs + subscription + cash store money. You think the Riot Games MMO is going to have this problem? You think Sony will have these problems with their upcoming slew of online titles such as the story driven Last of Us multiplayer that's coming? Of course not, they can actually build a platform for online games which includes buying and gifting micro-transactions. If Blizzard can suitably modernise a 2004 MMO, Square Enix should be doing it for their 2010 game. The piss poor cash store (and Mogstation in general) really shouldn't be an excuse.

[Deveryn]

I've played plenty of online games with perfectly integrated stores that don't require going to an external site... and that includes consoles. That does mean using the platform (so PlayStation or Steam for those versions in XIV's case) as the payment provider but at least you can seemlessly buy stuff. World of Warcraft has this on PC, I can buy MTX directly within the game from either the character screen (in the case of server transfers or faction changes) and when logged into a character for mounts etc. I'm pretty sure you can even buy buy expansions and subscription from the game client itself (not to mention the launcher has this functionality also). As for other games, titles like FIFA, Destiny 2, GTA Online allow you to buy the additional cash store stuff in-game (FIFA is just buying FIFA points from the platform store and then spending in-game).


If you hold XIV to the same standard as other actively developed online games, there's many areas where Square Enix falls short but still wants expansion costs + subscription + cash store money. You think the Riot Games MMO is going to have this problem? You think Sony will have these problems with their upcoming slew of online titles such as the story driven Last of Us multiplayer that's coming? Of course not, they can actually build a platform for online games which includes buying and gifting micro-transactions. If Blizzard can suitably modernise a 2004 MMO, Square Enix should be doing it for their 2010 game. The piss poor cash store (and Mogstation in general) really shouldn't be an excuse.

I think you're making too big a deal of the store while also being ignorant of what's actually involved in building and managing all that.

PSN and Steam are basically the same idea of the external site. Neither is a developer. They are both essentially sales platforms and I would think a little extra work would be required by whatever developer to build and maintain that store that would exist in game. I believe it's better to keep things separate. I also believe SE didn't want the shop to be the focus and be overly aggressive with that. When you run a trial of other games, you'll likely get ads boasting the benefits of subscribing, where XIV just has their restrictions.

If at the end of the day, they're still making some serious money without having an integrated store, it begs the question of why they should do that. Given that there isn't one, I have to think that there hasn't even been a whole lot of noise made about getting that in game. All we've gotten is glamour preview which makes a lot more sense. Maybe they just want to preserve that experience of loading up a game to play a game and not get into all that shop nonsense. I'm sure I'm not alone in enjoying that pure experience.

You see a piss poor shop. I see a less predatory gaming experience.

[Johners]

You see a piss poor shop. I see a less predatory gaming experience.

I see a piss poor shop because that's exactly what it is, a predatory and poorly implemented store.

There's more cash store items in this paid, subscription based MMO than the main competitor in WoW. There's FOMO items from previous event that aren't obtainable in the following year's version of the same event, you have to buy them. There's more adverts for new additions on the launcher, the Steam client news feed and the social media channels than competing games do for their MTX/cash store.

I don't see why keeping direct store access out of the game client suddenly makes any of that ok, it just doesn't. It's a predatory cash store that relies on FOMO and advertising to you in the news/social media feeds for the game.

[Deveryn]

I see a piss poor shop because that's exactly what it is, a predatory and poorly implemented store.

There's more cash store items in this paid, subscription based MMO than the main competitor in WoW. There's FOMO items from previous event that aren't obtainable in the following year's version of the same event, you have to buy them. There's more adverts for new additions on the launcher, the Steam client news feed and the social media channels than competing games do for their MTX/cash store.

I don't see why keeping direct store access out of the game client suddenly makes any of that ok, it just doesn't. It's a predatory cash store that relies on FOMO and advertising to you in the news/social media feeds for the game.

OK, so you must be a WoW shill because they're way more predatory. You said it yourself when you praised how you can buy things from in the game. Nothing in the FFXIV store is necessary for participating / winning in the game, while WoW has tokens for in game currency and items. You basically pay extra to participate in raids.

XIV's "FOMO items" as you call them are nothing more than an optional courtesy. You missed an event and can generally get the item for less than it would've cost to play during that time. That's less pressure on the customer to stay subscribed.

Who cares if there are adverts on the launcher or on social media? That's what any good business is supposed to do. When they start having shopping cart icons in the game itself is when things get legitimately predatory.

[Johners]

OK, so you must be a WoW shill because they're way more predatory. You said it yourself when you praised how you can buy things from in the game. Nothing in the FFXIV store is necessary for participating / winning in the game, while WoW has tokens for in game currency and items. You basically pay extra to participate in raids.

XIV's "FOMO items" as you call them are nothing more than an optional courtesy. You missed an event and can generally get the item for less than it would've cost to play during that time. That's less pressure on the customer to stay subscribed.

Who cares if there are adverts on the launcher or on social media? That's what any good business is supposed to do. When they start having shopping cart icons in the game itself is when things get legitimately predatory.

The FOMO items are predatory because they should just stay available in game at the event vendor. This year's Easter event, for example, had a FATE which gave eggs you then spent on a small pool of items at a vendor. All Easter event rewards ever added into XIV should've just been available at the vendor and newer players would just farm the FATE more to unlock them.


I don't buy the idea that the cash store isn't predatory solely because you can't directly access it in the game client. It's not a secret, everyone knows it exists and you see the items everywhere in game. Whether it's glamour, mounts or even housing customisations, you do see it.


As for WoW, I'm not shilling the game but the amount of items is much lower. Regarding the token, that's just a way of utilising supply and demand within the player base as a convenient substitute for RMT that would othewise happen. Not to mention things like level boosts exist to remove account sharing services that once existed to do this for you.


We're long past the stage in which cash stores are going to disappear in online games like XIV, WoW or anything else. In that case, they might as well be easily useable and actually allow players to gift rather than these arbitrary limitations in XIV (and the fact certain cosmetics are character specific which is just dumb).

[Deveryn]

The FOMO items are predatory because they should just stay available in game at the event vendor. This year's Easter event, for example, had a FATE which gave eggs you then spent on a small pool of items at a vendor. All Easter event rewards ever added into XIV should've just been available at the vendor and newer players would just farm the FATE more to unlock them.


I don't buy the idea that the cash store isn't predatory solely because you can't directly access it in the game client. It's not a secret, everyone knows it exists and you see the items everywhere in game. Whether it's glamour, mounts or even housing customisations, you do see it.


As for WoW, I'm not shilling the game but the amount of items is much lower. Regarding the token, that's just a way of utilising supply and demand within the player base as a convenient substitute for RMT that would othewise happen. Not to mention things like level boosts exist to remove account sharing services that once existed to do this for you.


We're long past the stage in which cash stores are going to disappear in online games like XIV, WoW or anything else. In that case, they might as well be easily useable and actually allow players to gift rather than these arbitrary limitations in XIV (and the fact certain cosmetics are character specific which is just dumb).

I don't buy the idea that you don't understand what actually constitutes predatory behavior and you definitely come off as a shill talking more highly of WoW and its practices. Maybe you're just used to it on the Western game market. Cash stores are necessary to help keep these games afloat, but I don't believe they need to be so integrated into the game we spend so much time on. SE is less aggressive with their marketing and it's working for them. I get bombarded with enough bullshit elsewhere online and offline. I really like looking at my game screen and not seeing a single sign of predatory behavior like a shopping cart icon or any kind of ad for specials when I get past login. Call it old-fashioned, but I appreciate being able to simply play my game.

[VelKallor]

XIV's "FOMO items" as you call them are nothing more than an optional courtesy. You missed an event and can generally get the item for less than it would've cost to play during that time. That's less pressure on the customer to stay subscribed.

Yup whereas Blizzard gets their chainsaw and you never see whatever it is again. Ever. Blizzard has literally carved out ENTIRE QUESTLINES at will. You werent here? Tough luck too bad so sad. But here, heres a reskinned recolour of a mount you can have for subscribing for SIX MONTHS.

I nearly died laughing at this "epic Feldrake"..which is a recolour of an existing mount with some green stuff attached.

Speaking of predatory..all the lore fof FF 145 is in the game. WOW asks you to buy.....what is it so far...25 books? to see what we already get in MSQ...anything and everything to keep you paying and playing......FOMO is in itself a predatory practice.

Regarding the token, that's just a way of utilising supply and demand within the player base as a convenient substitute for RMT that would othewise happen.

Spend real money - get token - sell token on AH - get gold - use gold to buy carries - pay to win.

..and dont even get me STARTED on Diablo 3's RMAH.......or Diablo Immortal fort that matter..

( FYI? Moonfire gear can be CRAFTED. No money needed. )

[Raoabolic]

OK, so you must be a WoW shill because they're way more predatory. You said it yourself when you praised how you can buy things from in the game. Nothing in the FFXIV store is necessary for participating / winning in the game, while WoW has tokens for in game currency and items. You basically pay extra to participate in raids.

XIV's "FOMO items" as you call them are nothing more than an optional courtesy. You missed an event and can generally get the item for less than it would've cost to play during that time. That's less pressure on the customer to stay subscribed.

Who cares if there are adverts on the launcher or on social media? That's what any good business is supposed to do. When they start having shopping cart icons in the game itself is when things get legitimately predatory.

Just because WoW made the concept accepted with the "Gamurz™" doesn't mean that SE gets a free pass at doing the same thing. We can go into how XIV has copied the bad parts of WoW as well (dailies/fomo/cash shops in a game with a monthly fee/ect.) but defending SE to this degree reeks of the same type of person that allowed past MMOs to fall into the usual trappings and then scratches their head when the game is hemorrhaging players.

[Deveryn]

Just because WoW made the concept accepted with the "Gamurz™" doesn't mean that SE gets a free pass at doing the same thing. We can go into how XIV has copied the bad parts of WoW as well (dailies/fomo/cash shops in a game with a monthly fee/ect.) but defending SE to this degree reeks of the same type of person that allowed past MMOs to fall into the usual trappings and then scratches their head when the game is hemorrhaging players.

I'm not giving them a free pass on anything because they're not clearly doing the same thing as WoW. Like I said earlier, cash shops are necessary for the survival of these games. There was a time I would say necessary evil, but there's nothing to be lost by completely ignoring the store. Your claim of them hemorraging players is baseless and ignores the fact that there's more competition for people's time than there used to be.

fomo is in your head.

I have no problem defending the dailies as they serve the purpose of actually helping other players and keep the older content fresh. It's not just about getting people to login for a prize.

Could they do some things better? yes... but I'm gonna call bullshit where I see it. The idea that this cash shop is some malicious predatory entity and WoW's isn't is the biggest steaming pile.