A game for 4 year olds

[Jandor]

I'm not going to engage deeply with that argument again because it's already been beaten to death in several other topics, but I still find myself thoroughly puzzled by why they couldn't have given Venat a more...concrete reason for her decision, as opposed to being based strictly on possibilities and the knowledge that mankind is still alive in the future for the time being.

It makes no sense to attach numerous shades of gray to a course of action, then double down on defending it as having been the right and best course. At that point you're better off just taking the black and white approach to avoid creating a weird tonal dissonance.

It's essentially the trolley problem, whatever she decides to do, someone is getting wiped out. The options she has are to try and save the unsundered world, or to try and save the six remaining sundered worlds.

Whichever side she picks will then, at some point, have to deal with the Meteion issue.

Feel kinda guilty for just crashing in and dropping that series of bombshells on her to be honest. Can't say I envy the position we left her in when we buggered off back to the present.

[SannaR]

I can't recall any situations even remotely near the same level of urgency throughout the MSQ save for the tail end of Shadowbringers, which incidentally was a much stronger push to see things through to see the end then what I got from anything in Endwalker.

I honestly think I got more catharsis from (Hopefully...) being rid of Zenos for good then I did the whole "saved the entire world" bit because it didn't feel like it was in grave danger it was stated to be with how limited the scope of the Final Days was.

There are people who feel or felt that we shouldn't have been able to enter Ul'dah, Limsa or Gridania back when 2.55 and before we learn Nanamo hadn't actually died. Or have more people react in the towns when baby Dalamud was in the sky. Or when the Towers appeared. Basically any time the skybox got changed or something that should have had a bigger impact than just a zone or two. Like how no one but that Dwarven town reacted to a different part of the mountain side exploding due to the Nier shenanigans.

[sidurgu-12]

There are people who feel or felt that we shouldn't have been able to enter Ul'dah, Limsa or Gridania back when 2.55 and before we learn Nanamo hadn't actually died. Or have more people react in the towns when baby Dalamud was in the sky. Or when the Towers appeared. Basically any time the skybox got changed or something that should have had a bigger impact than just a zone or two. Like how no one but that Dwarven town reacted to a different part of the mountain side exploding due to the Nier shenanigans.

Whats funny is i didnt leave the heavensward zones until nanamo was rescued because i genuinely thought i couldnt lol. Wasnt until a year or so later i learned otherwise.

[SannaR]

It's not play victim, but calling people out on hypocrisy. During an argument about EW, someone said to my face that me not able to moved on after traumatic experience is wrong because "you have to forge ahead".
So yeah, how isn't that not "telling people how to deal with loss"?

Maybe because we know that wallowing in grief and not finding a way to move on some how isn't a good thing for people to do? Now that doesn't mean you have to instantly move on or that you can't have some time to process what happened. But staying there and in that mindset isn't healthy for anyone. If you took it as them telling you that you have to move on right after you suffered a loss then I think that's on you. As I would really hope anyone who said that didn't mean it like that. And yeah people deal with grief differently. Some throw themselves into their work and do their best to keep busy as having a moment to sit and think about said loss is going to take them to a bad place. Then there are those who just need a day or two of sobbing before they're right as rain again. Others still will opt for a destructive approach. Which can be fine depending on what form it takes. Heck there are even those who get into a creative need that they need to ride out.

[MikkoAkure]

Democracy isn’t beyond criticism and not all fictional states have to be made democratic. Keeping Empire as is allows to have more variety in the story and is imo a good choice instead of completely wrecking it or making another bland democratic state by Alphinaud’s hand.

Oh boy, here we go with the same old tired argument that Garlemald needs to stay an empire due to "variety".

Most states in the game are not democratic to begin with, and those that changed their governments each had a completely valid reason of doing so. Each had lost their entire ruling class and had recent histories of absolute monarchs becoming tyrants that ruined their countries.

Garlemald was a democratic republic for 600 years. The empire was specifically built by an outsider who had no love for the Garleans or Garlemald and it was intended to fall apart. They had two civil wars over the succession of the throne that destroyed the homeland and killed scores of Garleans. The Garleans ended up destroying their own empire by themselves without the need of rebels or revolution and that happened before Endwalker so the expansion can't be blamed for that. What point is there to keep an empire going when the capital city is a pile of rubble and every single time a leader dies, the legions fight each other and kill their own people?

Aveyond's fanfiction is poorly researched when it comes to the lore we know on Garlemald, which is to be expected of one who has Russian in the Cyrillic script in his signature representing Garlemald despite the fact that all the people, places, and objects named by Garleans are in Latin. His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire. The senate is portrayed by Aveyond as being evil and doing acts of terrorism against the general populace and assassinating nobles despite the fact that in the actual game they're a powerless and divided faction with different ideas and one of the factions themselves is purged by Varis. That little tidbit coming right after a preachy spiel about how "democracy is bad and the empire knows better for its people" and Alphinuad being laughed at for "pitching democracy" feels like bad writing and a giant over-correction based on the writer's views.

But sure, the denizens of Garlemald would be thrilled to have another Galvus on the throne because the past year has been AWESOME and the Garlean people will put their full-support behind their new empress, a Garlean woman pregnant with a baby from the leader of a recently rebelling province despite the fact that Garleans of all social strata refer to non-Garleans as "savages". The people should be happy that they're continuing their ancient, storied (60 years), tradition of having a ruler from the family that has tried to varying degrees of success to kill their own people three times before, but the fourth time must be the charm.

[KariTheFox]

What's even the point of a story where after fighting against the oppressive, expansionist Garlean Empire, the end goal is to... slap some lady on the throne and call it a day because well, Garleans are just suited to being ruled by a monarch, and some of thier vassal states are better off being colonized by them anyway. What's the theme here meant to be? What's the message?

[CheshCa7]

But she is pretty and nice, unlike Shtola who was a ... 3 or something? I don't quite recall and I am too lazy to search for that thread.

[Alleo]

His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire.

He seems to like this name, since his one female alt is named that way. A blondish elezen. Hmm is that some kind of self insert?

Anyway I am a bit sad that people still defend him after that post a few pages back.

Thankfully this beast tribe is here to raise my mood again. I loved what they did with the last quest and the new mount has a spot on my hotbar.
Wonder if the Ra La people will be the subject of the last upgrade. I doubt they would keep that open until the allied questline (if we even get one).

[MikkoAkure]

To add to what I said before, I have no problem with the idea of monarchies on their own. My personal opinion is that just as in real life, democracy isn't for everyone and not for every country. The writers don't necessarily have a problem with monarchies either, or else Doma would not have remained a monarchy at the end and Hien would have been all "let's give the power to the people instead" like Aymeric, who had good reason to do so considering his dad's regime lived on a lie and the people who were angry about that now have ideas and also guns.


Ala Mhigo, Garlemald, Eulmore, and Bozja's monarchies end with no clear or willing successors. In Ala Mhigo's case, the country is taken by force by a rebellion made up of commoners. There is one royal successor who refuses to be ruler and would have no supporting noble class to rule with anyway. In what world would it make sense for them to select a random person and say "you, who have no experience ruling a country shall rule for life and so shall your descendants"? You can't have a monarchy out of just 1 guy descended from other guys. It requires a whole supporting structure and power/legitimacy which is usually made up of the nobility leading a strong and regimented social structure plus the military and often the religious addition: "it's this way with these people because the divine said so". Remove any one of those and your monarchy doesn't have anything to sit upon.

Besides the aforementioned Ishgard, Ala Mhigo and Bozja were taken by rebel forces with egalitarian ideas after their country's previous regimes were already conquered, replaced, and either don't exist anymore or at least aren't present in the newly conquering rebelling armies.

Eulmore was just 1 guy who created a super unbalanced and messed up society and fed his own people to each other to control them. After being killed as a Light Warden and leaving a power vacuum, it would leave a bad taste in players' mouths if the writers decided to elect a new mayor-for-life among the super elite who were living extravagantly like the world is ending (because it was) off the backs of people who are thrown off the city, turned into monsters, and live in shacks amongst garbage.

As for Garlemald, they had 2 civil wars over the legitimacy of the government determined by legions having different ideas and different factions. Now the remaining legions that we know about are completely depleted, have become POWs and give support to the Ilsabard Contingent, or both. The royal family and related nobles are dead.

Aveyond's story even required making up someone random that came from nowhere with no prior build-up or mention at all in earlier content, with no support from existing factions inside Garlemald, and inventing new and contradicting rules of succession for them to take the Garlean throne. She is chosen by Gaius (who by the way is believed by the entire Garlean populace as Varis' murderer in the lore of the actual game) as "oh, she'll do" and just happens to come with baggage including being pregnant with the baby from a rebel leader and ex-lord of a province who just fought and beat back the Garleans to regain his country and is suddenly is A-OK with Garlean hegemony when he learns his baby momma is supported by the Scions for the Garlean throne.


Anyways, the Domans still support their monarch, who is still alive and isn't a tyrant, and his form of government is perfectly fine for their people. Just like how Thavnair has been ruled for ages by an immortal dragon and there's no problem with that either. He was willing to step away from ruling after the secret was revealed but the people are fine with him and wanted him to stay. The Dalmascan rebels we work with are trying to put Princess Ashe back on the throne. If there was a story or expansion in the game that revolved around a corrupt and evil democracy with a princess of a fallen house supported by the people in the hiding, the WoL would probably help the princess restore the monarchy, and that would be perfectly fine and be a good story.

But I guess mentioning Doma, Thavnair, and Dalmasca trying to keep or restore their monarchies with popular support doesn't suit forum goers who need to insist that the writers have a political agenda and that Alphinaud is knocking on doors and spreading the word of archon loaf, democracy, and the Sharlayan way.

[Iscah]

This four (plus a few decades) year old thoroughly enjoyed the concluding quest. I'm expecting to see the Nibirun finally have their change of heart in the rank 8 quest. There's no way we're not getting their pretty location added to Elysion – it's been a request since Explorer mode only had the grey aftermath, and the Elysian sky has been based on theirs from the beginning!

It makes no sense to attach numerous shades of gray to a course of action, then double down on defending it as having been the right and best course. At that point you're better off just taking the black and white approach to avoid creating a weird tonal dissonance.

Agreed. I think either there's a clash of plans amongst the writers, or the whole "balanced on all sides" thing is just an ideal they theoretically want their plot to reach, but in practice they either don't know how to get there or they don't actually like that prospect in a real plot as much as they think they do when they're at the basic drafting stage.