A game for 4 year olds

[Thenightvortex]

If I remember correctly, probably the part where the rightful heir of Garlean Throne sets up a soapbox, pulls out a megaphone and talks about how democracy is bad actually, and some people would actually be better off as vassal states of the Garlean Empire because they're just too violent and unruly to govern themselves. So, y'know, rhetoric that resembles actually real life justifications for genocide.

Democracy isn’t beyond criticism and not all fictional states have to be made democratic. Keeping Empire as is allows to have more variety in the story and is imo a good choice instead of completely wrecking it or making another bland democratic state by Alphinaud’s hand.

More egregious than the mythological genocide of a race of godlike supermen with no real life analogue through a process anti-apotheosis as a story to explain why there is suffering in the world, I'd say.

Nah miss me with the mythological stuff. The only thing that makes it fictionalized is the fact that their souls lived on to reincarnate, the process itself is a full on extermination. If a nuke was falling down on the ground before you, I don’t think your first reaction would be to gasp and say “wow, what a mythopoetic act of apotheosis this is”.

For a game intended for 4 years old, we circle back to genocide discussion pretty often.

The more I think about it, the more I have the impression that Endwalker is a kids book written by a psychopath.

[Cleretic]

Nah miss me with the mythological stuff. The only thing that makes it fictionalized is the fact that their souls lived on to reincarnate, the process itself is a full on extermination. If a nuke was falling down on the ground before you, I don’t think your first reaction would be to gasp and say “wow, what a mythopoetic act of apotheosis this is”.

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.


Incidentally, have you been doing the quests that you started this thread to talk about? Because I have, and I find it more interesting than this derail, so let's get back to it.



Gonna spoiler-tag this out of courtesy for the people who haven't yet done it, which I suspect the most talkative people here might not have!

'Robots learn they have feelings' is not exactly a new concept even in this game, but I'm a sucker for it. And I like that a not insignificant part of the quest is about Jammingway having to meet N-7000 where it's at, rather than entirely N-7000 being the one doing the growing.

Interesting that the Nibirun still haven't been resolved; the Bloodsworn capstone is rarely used for story development, so maybe they're beeing held back for another quest. Perhaps the allied tribe quest?

[RukoBoshi]

Gonna spoiler-tag this out of courtesy for the people who haven't yet done it, which I suspect the most talkative people here might not have!

'Robots learn they have feelings' is not exactly a new concept even in this game, but I'm a sucker for it. And I like that a not insignificant part of the quest is about Jammingway having to meet N-7000 where it's at, rather than entirely N-7000 being the one doing the growing.

Interesting that the Nibirun still haven't been resolved; the Bloodsworn capstone is rarely used for story development, so maybe they're beeing held back for another quest. Perhaps the allied tribe quest?

Will there even be an allied tribe questline in the future ? SHB didn't get one, so i was under the impression that they won't do these anymore.

[jameseoakes]

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.


Incidentally, have you been doing the quests that you started this thread to talk about? Because I have, and I find it more interesting than this derail, so let's get back to it.

If that goes against the plot of the game then it shouldn't have been what they wrote, they even do a scene where she condemns the ancients before succouring them for existence and I don't appreciate your gatekeeping, genocide seems a apt term where she exterminates a race and its' culture for having the wrong kind of biology and society

[Thenightvortex]

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.

No, a bag of fantastical nonsense does not negate the actual similarities. Just because you don’t want to process it does not make it so distant from the real-life events. Anyway, I agree that the term “genocide” should be used for events that actually resemble it, so let’s see.

“ In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.”

Pretty much all of this applies to Venat except transferring children. She acted with the intent to destroy and eliminate ancients because with reasoning that is very similar to eugenics as well, “they were born unable to interact with Dynamis and thus are imperfect”. The erasure of memory also meant annihilation of their culture, which is yet another common trait of genocide. It’s not hard to play the game if that’s what you wish to do.

[MikkoAkure]

Democracy isn’t beyond criticism and not all fictional states have to be made democratic. Keeping Empire as is allows to have more variety in the story and is imo a good choice instead of completely wrecking it or making another bland democratic state by Alphinaud’s hand.

Oh boy, here we go with the same old tired argument that Garlemald needs to stay an empire due to "variety".

Most states in the game are not democratic to begin with, and those that changed their governments each had a completely valid reason of doing so. Each had lost their entire ruling class and had recent histories of absolute monarchs becoming tyrants that ruined their countries.

Garlemald was a democratic republic for 600 years. The empire was specifically built by an outsider who had no love for the Garleans or Garlemald and it was intended to fall apart. They had two civil wars over the succession of the throne that destroyed the homeland and killed scores of Garleans. The Garleans ended up destroying their own empire by themselves without the need of rebels or revolution and that happened before Endwalker so the expansion can't be blamed for that. What point is there to keep an empire going when the capital city is a pile of rubble and every single time a leader dies, the legions fight each other and kill their own people?

Aveyond's fanfiction is poorly researched when it comes to the lore we know on Garlemald, which is to be expected of one who has Russian in the Cyrillic script in his signature representing Garlemald despite the fact that all the people, places, and objects named by Garleans are in Latin. His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire. The senate is portrayed by Aveyond as being evil and doing acts of terrorism against the general populace and assassinating nobles despite the fact that in the actual game they're a powerless and divided faction with different ideas and one of the factions themselves is purged by Varis. That little tidbit coming right after a preachy spiel about how "democracy is bad and the empire knows better for its people" and Alphinuad being laughed at for "pitching democracy" feels like bad writing and a giant over-correction based on the writer's views.

But sure, the denizens of Garlemald would be thrilled to have another Galvus on the throne because the past year has been AWESOME and the Garlean people will put their full-support behind their new empress, a Garlean woman pregnant with a baby from the leader of a recently rebelling province despite the fact that Garleans of all social strata refer to non-Garleans as "savages". The people should be happy that they're continuing their ancient, storied (60 years), tradition of having a ruler from the family that has tried to varying degrees of success to kill their own people three times before, but the fourth time must be the charm.

[Alleo]

His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire.

He seems to like this name, since his one female alt is named that way. A blondish elezen. Hmm is that some kind of self insert?

Anyway I am a bit sad that people still defend him after that post a few pages back.

Thankfully this beast tribe is here to raise my mood again. I loved what they did with the last quest and the new mount has a spot on my hotbar.
Wonder if the Ra La people will be the subject of the last upgrade. I doubt they would keep that open until the allied questline (if we even get one).

[Kazemon15]

Aveyond's fanfiction is poorly researched when it comes to the lore we know on Garlemald, which is to be expected of one who has Russian in the Cyrillic script in his signature representing Garlemald despite the fact that all the people, places, and objects named by Garleans are in Latin. His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire. The senate is portrayed by Aveyond as being evil and doing acts of terrorism against the general populace and assassinating nobles despite the fact that in the actual game they're a powerless and divided faction with different ideas and one of the factions themselves is purged by Varis. That little tidbit coming right after a preachy spiel about how "democracy is bad and the empire knows better for its people" and Alphinuad being laughed at for "pitching democracy" feels like bad writing and a giant over-correction based on the writer's views.

Yeah I noticed the Russian thing too...and considering how he thinks Garlemald is the greatest thing since sliced bread...all his posts and line of thinking totally makes sense... he probably worships his country's leader's feet and wants Russia to expand just like Garlemald does and basically sees everyone else as "savages", just like Garlemald does. All this makes perfect sense when he has these unusual "standards" of people who enjoy the story and the idea of wanting female characters who are yes-men doormat bootlickers.

I don't want to call him a you-know-what sympathizer but...it all points to that direction and puts him in a very bad light now that the dots are connected. His posts about loss also makes sense to this too, considering he probably thinks most of the posters here are sub-human...

[aveyond-dreams]

Yeah I noticed the Russian thing too...and considering how he thinks Garlemald is the greatest thing since sliced bread...all his posts and line of thinking totally makes sense... he probably worships his country's leader's feet and wants Russia to expand just like Garlemald does and basically sees everyone else as "savages", just like Garlemald does. All this makes perfect sense when he has these unusual "standards" of people who enjoy the story and the idea of wanting female characters who are yes-men doormat bootlickers.

I don't want to call him a you-know-what sympathizer but...it all points to that direction and puts him in a very bad light now that the dots are connected. His posts about loss also makes sense to this too, considering he probably thinks most of the posters here are sub-human...

Do you see why it’s impossible for me to take you seriously?

[thegreatonemal]

Do you see why it’s impossible for me to take you seriously?

The rest of us can say the same about you chief.