A summary of healer issues

[ty_taurus]

I would still call them shallow. There isn't enough in the PvP kits to make good PvE classes. You're still going to have to add more buttons.

Just because GW2 can do it doesn't mean FFXIV feasibly can. GW2 was built upon the idea of having ~5 buttons (times that by 4 for Elementalist) because on top of that, they also have weapons that do different skills AND a weapon swap (with added customization from the other 5 or so skills that you gain from your class/race). ESO was pretty much the same.

FFXIV was NOT built on that design. Its design is closer to WoW and Rift. There is no way you're gonna condense a kit all the way to ~8 buttons. Realistically, you're looking at a minimum of 15-20.

Further, not everyone wants condensed skills. In 6.0 GNB's Continuation got condensed to 1 button. Kudos to those who wanted it that way, but I sure as all seven hells did not. And there is no way for me to change it back. (Thank you SE btw for screwing up my muscle memory!).

I think SGE's PVP kit is a ton of fun, but that's also because engages tend to end by the time I run out of non-Dosis based resources: Pneuma, Eukrasia, Toxikon charges, and Phlegmas. There really isn't much there, but because PVP is all about jumping into fast-paced engagements that end quite quickly, all or most of my charges are back up by the time I reengage. This isn't how PVE flows, and while Pneuma and Toxikon feels so much more fun to use in PVP and could realistically translate far better into PVE than something like WHM's Force of Nature or most other PVP job mechanics, I don't think that would really be enough to make PVE content fun enough. It would still need a bit more, because you spend much longer in a consistent state of combat. So PVE kits definitely need more actions to work with overall, but that doesn't mean a good PVE kit needs to be bloated either. We could reasonably have really engaging and exciting PVE kits in less actions than we currently use if they're better, thought that doesn't meant we should necessarily be afraid of having more actions either.

That said, healers have a big problem as well with having toolkits that have no real interactivity that allows for better button optimization or depth. WHM is not a bloated job in terms of numbers in comparison to other jobs, but... Cure, Cure II, Cure III, Medica, Medica II, Regen, Afflatus Solace, and Afflatus Rapture... There's a lot of unnecessary fluff in that pile and it could easily be consolidated to create something slimmer but also more cohesive, especially when building more tools into it.

[ASkellington]

I think SGE's PVP kit is a ton of fun, but that's also because engages tend to end by the time I run out of non-Dosis based resources: Pneuma, Eukrasia, Toxikon charges, and Phlegmas. There really isn't much there, but because PVP is all about jumping into fast-paced engagements that end quite quickly, all or most of my charges are back up by the time I reengage. This isn't how PVE flows, and while Pneuma and Toxikon feels so much more fun to use in PVP and could realistically translate far better into PVE than something like WHM's Force of Nature or most other PVP job mechanics, I don't think that would really be enough to make PVE content fun enough. It would still need a bit more, because you spend much longer in a consistent state of combat. So PVE kits definitely need more actions to work with overall, but that doesn't mean a good PVE kit needs to be bloated either. We could reasonably have really engaging and exciting PVE kits in less actions than we currently use if they're better, thought that doesn't meant we should necessarily be afraid of having more actions either.

That said, healers have a big problem as well with having toolkits that have no real interactivity that allows for better button optimization or depth. WHM is not a bloated job in terms of numbers in comparison to other jobs, but... Cure, Cure II, Cure III, Medica, Medica II, Regen, Afflatus Solace, and Afflatus Rapture... There's a lot of unnecessary fluff in that pile and it could easily be consolidated to create something slimmer but also more cohesive, especially when building more tools into it.

I mean I never said the kits couldn't be pruned. I'm just saying the pvp kits do not have enough buttons to cover PvE. You're gonna need more. And the minimum is likely to look like on the side of 15-20 buttons.

As far as PvP kits go, I don't want AST's without changes either. The cards are nice, but I hate how the dualcast for AST is set up. I would rather it be a toggle between Diurnal/Nocturnal or if I am forced to have dual cast, give me the shield FIRST. Never understood that either. In PvP I would want to mitigate the incoming hits first and then use the dual cast regen to restore while some hits are being mitigated.

I'd comment on the other healers, but I also haven't played PvP since the latest update. /shrug

[ty_taurus]

I mean I never said the kits couldn't be pruned. I'm just saying the pvp kits do not have enough buttons to cover PvE. You're gonna need more. And the minimum is likely to look like on the side of 15-20 buttons.

As far as PvP kits go, I don't want AST's without changes either. The cards are nice, but I hate how the dualcast for AST is set up. I would rather it be a toggle between Diurnal/Nocturnal or if I am forced to have dual cast, give me the shield FIRST. Never understood that either. In PvP I would want to mitigate the incoming hits first and then use the dual cast regen to restore while some hits are being mitigated.

I'd comment on the other healers, but I also haven't played PvP since the latest update. /shrug

It was the first half that was more inspired by your post. The second half about pruning was more just a general thought.