A summary of healer issues

[Renathras]

I wish they’d be a bit more forthcoming with information about healers going forward. If nothing else at least to put some of these arguments to rest. Even just like, ‘we’re looking into doing X’, or ‘we may look into Y’ or the like.

There’s likely around 10-11 months before Dawntrail releases and the silence is already deafening…

Will Astrologian keep its cards? Will Scholar get more DoTs? Will White Mage get..anything? We’ll never know because we’ll all be skeletons by the time they announce anything

Edit: I know there’s the whole ‘people complaining before trying it’ thing they’re worried about but people are kinda gonna do that anyway. Isn’t it human nature for people to make snap judgements?

Honestly, I'm very curious about the AST rework. They play things way too close to the chest (which is sad because once upon a time, they didn't'; the "Letter from the Producer" started with a spirit of openness back in 1.X which is what made Yoshi P so loved in the first place). But I think whatever they do with AST will be pointing the way forward for healers overall. So if nothing else, just seeing whatever it ends up being will be the big pointer to what they plan for healers to be in the future.

I feel like SGE kinda did that, but it's also a bit of an odd duck at the same time. But as the AST rework is specifically planned to be major thing to get AST in whatever line they want healers marching in, I feel like it'll be more key somehow.

[Aravell]

I wish they’d be a bit more forthcoming with information about healers going forward. If nothing else at least to put some of these arguments to rest. Even just like, ‘we’re looking into doing X’, or ‘we may look into Y’ or the like.

There’s likely around 10-11 months before Dawntrail releases and the silence is already deafening…

Will Astrologian keep its cards? Will Scholar get more DoTs? Will White Mage get..anything? We’ll never know because we’ll all be skeletons by the time they announce anything

Edit: I know there’s the whole ‘people complaining before trying it’ thing they’re worried about but people are kinda gonna do that anyway. Isn’t it human nature for people to make snap judgements?

If I recall correctly, they were very sour about people pushing back against Stormblood lilies before the expansion even launched. But I think it was a bit later that they completely removed any job updates until the patch notes comes out.

From what I remember though, the pushback was often warranted, some of the decisions they make just either don't fit with how the job is played or fundamentally breaks the job. Every healer (except SGE, because it's new) has been affected by this problem.

WHM's SB lilies weren't usable in the way the job is played.
SCH's ED removal in ShB fundamentally broke the job and turned it into an overheal bot.
AST had ShB launch Sleeve Draw, that was actually unplayable on controller.

Honestly, I don't think the AST rework will do well, we all already know that their current design choice for healers isn't going to pan out well, but they've shown no indication of knowing anything is wrong or even acknowledging the growing discontent towards healers from even the JP side. It's becoming increasingly obvious that they just don't know what to do with healers, also shown by how they keep giving every other role more and more healing and mitigation while designing fights that do less and less damage.

[OgruMogru]

If I recall correctly, they were very sour about people pushing back against Stormblood lilies before the expansion even launched. But I think it was a bit later that they completely removed any job updates until the patch notes comes out.

From what I remember though, the pushback was often warranted, some of the decisions they make just either don't fit with how the job is played or fundamentally breaks the job. Every healer (except SGE, because it's new) has been affected by this problem.

WHM's SB lilies weren't usable in the way the job is played.
SCH's ED removal in ShB fundamentally broke the job and turned it into an overheal bot.
AST had ShB launch Sleeve Draw, that was actually unplayable on controller.

Honestly, I don't think the AST rework will do well, we all already know that their current design choice for healers isn't going to pan out well, but they've shown no indication of knowing anything is wrong or even acknowledging the growing discontent towards healers from even the JP side. It's becoming increasingly obvious that they just don't know what to do with healers, also shown by how they keep giving every other role more and more healing and mitigation while designing fights that do less and less damage.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...before-SB-hits

Found this super fast because I remember it was the post that made me join the forums to sign my name. It's got worse since then!

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If I recall correctly, they were very sour about people pushing back against Stormblood lilies before the expansion even launched. But I think it was a bit later that they completely removed any job updates until the patch notes comes out[...]

Yikes, imagine having so little confidence with their change that they just choose not gather receptions for those changes.

I kept telling myself AST rework won't be a good one so I won't be as disappointed by the time it's here. But now I'm scared to even know what they will do to the job lol.

[Aravell]

Yikes, imagine having so little confidence with their change that they just choose not gather receptions for those changes.

I kept telling myself AST rework won't be a good one so I won't be as disappointed by the time it's here. But now I'm scared to even know what they will do to the job lol.

If SGE is any indication, I'd guess that they're going to turn AST into more of a WHM clone. Maybe they'll turn Earthly Star into Assize and other such changes. I don't expect the cards to get any better either, they seem to believe that this is what the players wanted. Guess we'll have to see what we get after the media tour.

EDIT: Thinking on it, I'm fairly sure they cut out all communication on job updates sometime during SB, because I'm fairly sure everyone could've told the dev team that ShB launch Sleeve Draw was not a good idea at all.

[ForsakenRoe]

EDIT: Thinking on it, I'm fairly sure they cut out all communication on job updates sometime during SB, because I'm fairly sure everyone could've told the dev team that ShB launch Sleeve Draw was not a good idea at all.

Might be misremembering, but I feel like the over-reaction to the WAR change of 4.2 had a massive hand in it. Theorycrafters back then thought it'd be a sizeable nerf to WAR because it would no longer align with every raidbuff window, only with 90s based things (so, only every 2nd Trick in the 'NIN DRG BRD MCH/SMN meta'). They seemingly forgot to factor in the fact that the burst window for the new WAR would be guaranteed Crit/DHit, as it turned out to be like 10% more damage, cementing WAR as 'locked slot level of strong' for the rest of the expansion. But the overreaction, the doomsaying, the 'wtf is wrong with you SE' that was going around at the time probably had a hand in SE saying 'ok sod it we just won't tell you what the changes are until the patch goes live'

Funny enough, said delay doesn't change anything. Whether the playerbase complains that a change is bad 3 days early when preliminary notes comes out, or during the maintenance when the finalized notes come out, neither matters in the grand scheme. Because by then it's too late for SE to change anything anyway. All it does is delay the 'wtf is wrong with SE they suck' comments by a few days, it doesn't stop them from happening

It would be nice if they would be open with us about job reworks in advance of the rework occurring, so that people could give feedback on the direction of it. If they showed us that they want to simplify AST even further, eg removing the delay on Star and turning it into 'remote detonation Assize', making the cards even more brain-off, etc. We could tell them, in advance, that 'this will bomb please go back to the drawing board'. But instead we're being asked, once again, 'please have faith in the people who put AST in the current state it's in, to be able to make it more fun again', and we are being kept in the dark on what that looks like. Is it any wonder that people are assuming it's like, so that the devs can do whatever idea they've scraped off the cutting room floor, without regard for how awful it actually is in practice, and once it's live it's 'too late to make big changes, we can only do potency tweaks sorry'?

[Sebazy]

If SGE is any indication, I'd guess that they're going to turn AST into more of a WHM clone. Maybe they'll turn Earthly Star into Assize and other such changes. I don't expect the cards to get any better either, they seem to believe that this is what the players wanted. Guess we'll have to see what we get after the media tour.

That's pretty much my greatest fear yeah.

[IDontPetLalas]

I had to add thanks for the laugh Connor , it may be true , but still "We’ll never know because we’ll all be skeletons by the time they announce anything" that was a good one

[Supersnow845]

^ because none of us keep a “score” or keep enough baggage to sink the titanic that we bring up every time we have a discussion with anyone else

If you haven’t noticed the rest of us approach each post as a new discussion, meanwhile you seem content with playing the victim from a post 10385819404827175 threads ago the rest of us have already forgotten

[Renathras]

Clearly you do, considering how often you bring things up.

And have you not noticed how I approach each new post and thread? I make arguments or present thoughts or counter points. Only once I'm attacked do I do anything else. Have a discussion with me sometime where no one attacks me and watch all the non-drama that happens.

Meanwhile, for a month, you guys "approaching each post as a new discussion" brought up the 1T3D thread. For two months, and then a scattering of times after, people brought up the "Slidecasting" thing (which was a difference of definition, not even a lack of understanding). For all the vaunted "we don't bring up the past", you guys bring up the past a lot. And for all the "you play the victim", you guys victimize me a lot. Even now, you've all ganged up on me in this thread - other than Roe.

Has one of you even CONSIDERED calling out Shurikkan?

No.

Has one of you even CONSIDERED calling out Sabezy?

No.

Has one of you even considered calling out me?

Oh, you all have. And are.

One of these things is not like the others...

EDIT:

Anyway, fine, whatever. I'll do what others won't. Sabezy won't, Shurikkan won't, and none of the rest of you will.

Ty: I'm sorry. Honestly, I've said before I really like you. I think that we think in similar ways. In another lifetime, we might have been good friends. I admire your mind and how you approach problems. While I was perturbed about that one incident (I did have you dead to rights), I still think you're a good person, enjoy your posts and topics and polls, and though it was to counter Sabezy's point, I shouldn't have brought you up since I really did want to let that one in the past, even...well, anyway, I'm sorry.

Averell: We don't often see eye to eye. I do think sometimes you can be an amazingly compassionate person and see sense. I know this will sound like a backhanded complement, probably, but I wish you did it more often. Not just for me, but because I think that kind of calming presence is infectious when employed and can lead to more kindness and compassion. I'm sorry for mentioning you, even if it was by way of countering someone's accusation.

Snow: You're...extremely taxing to argue with. Maybe you're just as stubborn as I am, I dunno. But I'm sorry for bringing you up as well, it was just the most recent example and thus fresh on my mind. But I apologize.

I'm going to delete the post now.