A summary of healer issues

[Recon1o6]

If you've actually done the healer Halls of the Novice Trials, you'll find that's exactly how the devs expect healers to act. The "trainer" NPC will scream at you to heal your allies when they're at like 80% health. It's so pathetic and annoying -_-;

i am fully aware of that, after all, I am the OP and I put that in the starting post

unfortunately, it appears the member of the job team that wrote that was the one who left in HW

[Iedarus]

What really sucks too is the fact that the aggressive healer is very much possible in other MMOs. In Dragon Nest, the three healer classes have ENTIRE DAMAGE ROTATIONS. The main difference being that they only have a select few heals. While I don't see flipping the ratio of damage abilities to heal abilities as a viable solution, it's still baffling as to why Dragon Nest isn't the golden standard of how to create healers. Nothing gives me more of an ego boost than being able to have a tight rotation while saving my team.

[Yhisa]

11111 and 1.2.3 are equally boring tbh

The problem in this game is it's static fights , once u map your healing CDs etc u end up mashing 1111 or 123 consently anyway

I actually want to see more "random" damage given out which isn't predictable by cast bars etc to make me think "oh crap where this damage come from???"

I mean healers can legit have red mage proc style damage and that still be boring, and as people said , which forces the "green DPS" role

ATM se needs to think, add more random damage in raids / dungeons that is unpredictable to force us to actively be a healer, or should they just strip down the healing to ogcds and push us to be "support" rather then "healers' and legit just put us as a full on "green DPS"

ATM as a white mage, I feel more of a green DPS with support healing, then an actual healer

[Semirhage]

Non-random damage contributes to the green DPS paradigm, but isn't the ultimate creator of it. Downtime is. Downtime will always exist. It's a natural consequence of designing a game that allows a wide range of skill levels to complete most content. Random damage will slightly reduce downtime. Adding support will reduce downtime. Short of doing something utterly insane like disabling healer damage spells in instanced content, it's not possible to eliminate it. Or, based on how low Squeenix wants to maintain the skill floor, reduce by any significant margin.

I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it a thousand more: This community doesn't actually want a huge increase in outgoing damage. The proportion of people who think dungeons or story trials are challenging prevent it.

[MintnHoney]

Dragon Nest

Windwalker for life~

And while I kind of agree with what you say, to be fair, Dragon Nest is a very different game than what FFXIV is. On the other hand, I'm not 100% sure what kind of game XIV is trying to be anymore, so maybe there's an issue with identity as the underlying issue for all of this?

[FoxCh40s]

Windwalker for life~

And while I kind of agree with what you say, to be fair, Dragon Nest is a very different game than what FFXIV is. On the other hand, I'm not 100% sure what kind of game XIV is trying to be anymore, so maybe there's an issue with identity as the underlying issue for all of this?

It started out as a simple but deeply complex game, where the skill Mastery and ceiling was high but the entry was easy. The jobs gradually got more complex and demanded more of you as a game should as you progress through the levels. Later on in ARR, it became less about the simple kit, and really truly trying to understand how to apply it.

Heavensward hit, and in my opinion, the job was at peak complexity and enjoyment. It was not without its issues for sure, they most certainly pale in comparison as to the issues we have now, we just had no idea what was to come.

Healers were absolutely beautiful in Heavensward, Scholar especially was just this beautiful mess of skills that synergized exceptionally well but cohesively made zero sense when talked about separately.

And then the Stormblood Nation attacked, and signaled the doom of the role in a way we couldn't have possibly comprehended. Maybe if we had been even more vocal back then, we may have been able to stop the travesty that is Shadowbringers Healer Iteration? I honestly don't know anymore. I worry that I'm terms of Story Cohesion and Well Designed Battle Mechanics overall 14 has peaked at Heavensward.

We have yet to have an excellent Story coincide with Excellent tuning and combat, and sadly, I just don't think it's in this current teams capabilites without some serious hiring, which I doubt will ever come without something similar happening to Dps as did Healers.

[SpiralMask]

What really sucks too is the fact that the aggressive healer is very much possible in other MMOs. In Dragon Nest, the three three healer classes have ENTIRE DAMAGE ROTATIONS. The main difference being that they only have a select few heals. While I don't see flipping the ratio of damage abilities to heal abilities as a viable solution, it's still baffling as to why Dragon Nest isn't the golden standard of how to create healers. Nothing gives me more of an ego boost than being able to have a tight rotation while saving my team.

Jesus, other humans who played dragon nest! Its been years but i had quite a bit of fun with the flail cleric-boy

[Recon1o6]

just watched the benchmark, sage reveal from earlier this year and the leaked aoe from the benchmark to double check

Sage has the following actions from what I have identified

1 art of war copy where the nouliths circle above the head shooting the oppressor's bullets (the roomwide aoe in a1) this is from the benchmark leak so its definately in the game as the benchmark is a modified game client.
1 attack that shoots the nouliths at a single point on the enemy. Either a dot (heat burn on a single point) or a nuke. My money is on nuke given how simple the animation is
1 attack of circling nouliths on the enemy assuming that its not an alphinaud exclusive. I've only seen him using it so far. Possibly a nuke.
1 attack that crosses the nouliths on an enemy and makes trails that leave flames. It was bigger than the enemy in question and had no cast animation. So its likely an ogcd attack.
1 basic heal
1 aoe version of the basic heal
1 circular barrier (single target)
1 cubic barrier (single target)

all in all, nothing to suggest its not simply a 5.0 scholar that turned the fairy into laser guns yet.

curiously one thing I did note is the absence of any reaper actions apart from possibly the limit break 3 for reaper by zenos. Its difficult to say because that end stuff was clearly animated without any actions.

[Grimoire-M]

It started out as a simple but deeply complex game, where the skill Mastery and ceiling was high but the entry was easy. The jobs gradually got more complex and demanded more of you as a game should as you progress through the levels. Later on in ARR, it became less about the simple kit, and really truly trying to understand how to apply it.

Heavensward hit, and in my opinion, the job was at peak complexity and enjoyment. It was not without its issues for sure, they most certainly pale in comparison as to the issues we have now, we just had no idea what was to come.

Healers were absolutely beautiful in Heavensward, Scholar especially was just this beautiful mess of skills that synergized exceptionally well but cohesively made zero sense when talked about separately.

And then the Stormblood Nation attacked, and signaled the doom of the role in a way we couldn't have possibly comprehended. Maybe if we had been even more vocal back then, we may have been able to stop the travesty that is Shadowbringers Healer Iteration? I honestly don't know anymore. I worry that I'm terms of Story Cohesion and Well Designed Battle Mechanics overall 14 has peaked at Heavensward.

We have yet to have an excellent Story coincide with Excellent tuning and combat, and sadly, I just don't think it's in this current teams capabilites without some serious hiring, which I doubt will ever come without something similar happening to Dps as did Healers.

Heavensward wasn’t special. ARR through SB Scholar was absolutely broken though. It had too much free healing. And warped the other two around it. Micromanaging the fairy wasn’t worth the carpal tunnel at high ping imo. I’m fine with the nerfs it got in Shadowbringers. I’m not okay with the trim on their DPS kit. Any changes I want on the healing side are baseline throughput nerfs that come coupled with flexibility focused buffs. Mostly because I want to widen the gap between Scholar’s min and max throughput.

All Heavensward really had was consistent tank damage that actually cut into Embrace and Regens through a combination of omni-present autos, mini busters/cleaves, crits, and actual factual tank busters. Stormblood Scholar had a sheer excess of tank auto tools. Shadowbringers gave everyone Tank Mastery instead of killing aggro reduction from non-tanks and took away the mini busters and consistent autos for less frequent periods of slightly heavier auto damage contingent on each fight. Those changes resulted in more consistent damage intake, that is overall lower than previous expansions when you finally factor in relative gear scaling into the equation.

[FoxCh40s]

Heavensward wasn’t special. ARR through SB Scholar was absolutely broken though. It had too much free healing. And warped the other two around it. Micromanaging the fairy wasn’t worth the carpal tunnel at high ping imo. I’m fine with the nerfs it got in Shadowbringers. I’m not okay with the trim on their DPS kit. Any changes I want on the healing side are baseline throughput nerfs that come coupled with flexibility focused buffs. Mostly because I want to widen the gap between Scholar’s min and max throughput.

All Heavensward really had was consistent tank damage that actually cut into Embrace and Regens through a combination of omni-present autos, mini busters/cleaves, crits, and actual factual tank busters. Stormblood Scholar had a sheer excess of tank auto tools. Shadowbringers gave everyone Tank Mastery instead of killing aggro reduction from non-tanks and took away the mini busters and consistent autos for less frequent periods of slightly heavier auto damage contingent on each fight. Those changes resulted in more consistent damage intake, that is overall lower than previous expansions when you finally factor in relative gear scaling into the equation.

Can we stop with the Scholar was OP thing? That is a old, tired, very very dead horse.

Scholars JOB DESIGN was glorious back then; hell, it could have done absolutely awful damage and healing wise and I still would have played it because of how complex and deep it was.