Whatever happened to “We don’t balance fights around healers needing to do damage?”

[Semirhage]

I wouldn't complain about simplify tank rotations tbh

You're in luck! I've developed a Pure Healer for Real True Healers. I'm sure the design could be tweaked for tanks too. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...24#post6103924

[AFuzzyMu11in]

You're in luck! I've developed a Pure Healer for Real True Healers. I'm sure the design could be tweaked for tanks too. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...24#post6103924

This is actually a good idea minus the sarcasm that you included in the post, I would play a job that only heals but has passive dps buffs its basically lulu in league yuumi/soraka.

[ForsakenRoe]

This is actually a good idea minus the sarcasm that you included in the post, I would play a job that only heals but has passive dps buffs its basically lulu in league yuumi/soraka.

Unlucky for you, I don't play League, but back in my Uni days I played a bit of DOTA. Interestingly, while certain characters there were clearly designed to be Supports (Crystal Maiden, Io, Lich), and some as what you'd call AD carry (Phantom Assassin, Chaos Knight), there was a time I theorised an idea for 'roaming ganking Chaos Knight', using his ability to pull an enemy into melee range with himself, a stun with a RNG duration, and building an item that roots the enemy in place (and gives like 300 mana via INT, CK needs mana). Originally an idea just to wind up friends by suggesting the stupidest build ideas possible, but thanks to DOTA not 'enforcing' a role on a character, one that can win matches just as well as any 'true support'. I've seen people play support QOP, PA and Invoker. I've seen people play Carry OgreMagi, Io, DarkSeer, even Carry Techies. Why is this relevant? Because devs can nudge players in a direction of how to play something, but I feel they shouldn't force the player to play a certain way down to the exacts. If I wanted to, there's presumably nothing stopping me from building Lulu or Soraka as an AD carry or a mid, outside of it being a bit harder to work with, and maybe my team reporting me for griefing. But the items in the shop won't be locked off from me, right? Here in FF, yes I assume someone will want to hit me with something like 'but doesn't that mean you would support me wanting to play RDM but I'm a healer RDM' and yes, this is why there are certain lines to be drawn. RDM is a DPS, so it should be expected to do DPS. But there's apparently nothing stopping a RDM from going full safetymode and spamming Vercure for an entire Normal Raid.

Likewise, in a more relevant example, the devs of a certain MMO called Final Fantasy XI made NIN to be a DPS primarily, but the playerbase found a way to use it to Tank. Rather than come down on the class with a hammer and kill it's ability to play this way, they instead added more support on gear for this emergent gameplay, additional emnity generation, extra shadowclone charges per cast of the skill, etc. The emergent gameplay here in FFXIV is that when us healers have nothing to heal, we DPS. So rather than trying to remove our options for 'how' we do DPS, they should have embraced the fact we have so much downtime to DPS in, and found ways to tie the damage and healing skills into one fluid class, rather than how it feels now where the two halves seem to almost conflict. IMO, by trying to force healers to 'heal more' we're just trying to ram the square peg into the circular hole, and we can see how 'give us more to heal' has worked out with this tier: SE showed they don't know what 'give us more to heal' even means. They didn't give us 'heal more often', they gave us 'mit even harder', which just placed more reliance on the DPS to actually press Feint and Addle. 'More to heal' would be more frequent raidwides, not 'this does 1.4x your entire HP bar before mit, and also has a bleed after'

[ty_taurus]

This is actually a good idea minus the sarcasm that you included in the post, I would play a job that only heals but has passive dps buffs its basically lulu in league yuumi/soraka.

Wait a second, how can you only heal on Soraka, Lulu, or Yuumi?

Soraka's healing is directly tied to her HP, and her only way of getting it back is by attacking. Additionally, the other major aspect of her gameplay is silencing and rooting enemies in place, denying them the opportunity to escape your teammates or damage your party. But regardless, Soraka can't thrive unless she pokes regularly, or she just runs herself dry and dies. She does a lot of healing, but the actually gameplay of Soraka is actually quite aggressive in order to make that happen.

Yuumi has the benefit of not needing to move, but a major part of her gameplay is literally controlling her projectile attacks and trying to catch the enemy in her ult. Her heal is far less involved than Soraka's.

Lulu doesn't even have a heal outside of her Ultimate. She does have a shield, but Lulu is far more aggressive than the others, where almost all of her gameplay is poking, harrassing, and CC.

These are all quite aggressive supports, which makes sense because League doesn't really have passive supports. Yuumi is the most passive, but that's largely because she doesn't generally have to worry about her own positioning, or at least, not traditionally.

[ForsakenRoe]

Oh yeh, I completely forgot all the other crap supports did in DOTA that is more 'close to home' in terms of responsibilities. Providing vision via warding for the carries to get safer farm spots, setting up ganks with their CC, pulling the neutrals from the nearby camps into the lane to divert the creeps (or minions), causing the meeting point of the two opposing creep/minion waves to be shifted towards the support's tower (more safety for their carry), poking the enemy offlaner/potentially catching them out if they overextend to set them back and jump their carry ahead in networth, even denying low HP allied creeps (I hear its not a thing in League, basically, you last hit your own creep so the enemy doesn't get the last hit gold bonus, it also lowers the XP the enemy gains from the death). Oh yeh and of course, if anything goes wrong, it's the support's fault. At least that part sounds familiar...

[Nizzi]

Oh boy, a healer forum troll is back!

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Oh boy, a healer forum troll is back!

Just because I like current healing iteration doesn't make me a troll lol....

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Oh boy, a healer forum troll is back!

Honestly I don’t think they are a troll & just somebody genuinely likes the current healer iteration… for whatever reason.

[flowerfairy]

These are all quite aggressive supports, which makes sense because League doesn't really have passive supports.

Yep, every enchanter in League either has CC, buffs, debuffs, or all 3. If you’re playing Yuumi and you’re not stepping out to proc her shield, or playing Sona and not using her chord passive, you’re playing them wrong.

Honestly is there any multiplayer game where supports do nothing but heal with no responsibility for contributing to damage? It’s mostly avoided by game devs because you might as well be playing afk arena. I play supports to support my teammates, not to leech off of them. I don’t understand the enjoyment from this sort of play style…

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

The only game I see where there is a full support class is Ragnarok online with the Priest/high priest and Professor classes.

But in RO, the gameplay is totally different where those classes use heal/buff or support skills on a constant basis with almost no downtime and even there these support classes can have an offensive side.

Still, FFXIV and RO are completely different games and can't be compared imho.