Whatever happened to “We don’t balance fights around healers needing to do damage?”

[Videra]

Oh god, FuzzyMuffin is back.

[ForteNightshade]

We should send you over to the tank forums and see how those players feel about that.

As one of those tank players.

[Somnolence]

This is like saying giving tanks a DPS rotation muddles their responsibility to hit their mitigations for a tank buster or raid wide.

All tank mits are oGCDs. The same is not easily doable with healers since tanks don't change their target during their rotation.
Remember that giving healers more dps tools is not enough by itself, they need to be able to use them, which effectively means they need not to be be punished by bad parties/tanks and forced to heal more than needed and seethe that they are tanking their damage - IMO this is primary reason why healers are MIA for this savage tier in PF.
I am not sure how this can be solved easily.

[ty_taurus]

All tank mits are oGCDs. The same is not easily doable with healers since tanks don't change their target during their rotation.
Remember that giving healers more dps tools is not enough by itself, they need to be able to use them, which effectively means they need not to be be punished by bad parties/tanks and forced to heal more than needed and seethe that they are tanking their damage - IMO this is primary reason why healers are MIA for this savage tier in PF.
I am not sure how this can be solved easily.

This issue keeps getting brought up, but this is based on the flawed idea that a team that's falling apart requires healers to switch to a GCD healing-heavy gameplay experience with is blatantly untrue. Recovering from a messy scenario does not cause your GCD healing uptime to skyrocket. There just isn't enough damage anywhere in the game to demand that. You will still have spent the majority of your time attack before and after that.

Moreover, if this is happening in casual content where this type of rough tank/DPS gameplay is likely to occur, then who cares if the healer needs to drop a chunk of DPS uptime? Take whatever time you need and attack when you're done. It's not a detriment to the party. Even if you somehow had a team crumbling so poorly that you were forced to spam Medica and nothing else somehow, whether or not you can do your DPS rotation will have no effect on your team's ability to clear that encounter. It'll either be because their messing up will cause a wipe or you'll eventually get the clear cause there's no DPS checks in casual.

If you're talking about EX/Savage where DPS checks matter, if the team is messing up that badly that you'd need to spend so much time healing on the GCD, you'd fail the DPS check anyway regardless of whether or not you have a rotation.

This idea that a rotation interferes with healing doesn't make any sense because what asks healers to heal or DPS is not their tools, it's the content you're playing.

[Deceptus]

We should send you over to the tank forums and see how those players feel about that.

I 'member when my thread about a single Warrior soloing A1N got moved from the Healer forum to the Tank forum. Completely different mindset over there. Most of them were completely fine with the concept of a single player soloing an 8 person raid boss, cheered it on even.

All tank mits are oGCDs. The same is not easily doable with healers since tanks don't change their target during their rotation.

Bit off topic, but that moment when the BLU Mage version of TBN (Chelodian Gate) as well as almost all other tank mitigations have an actual cast time. It sucks trying to tank things.

[fulminating]

Does warrior have the burst damage to deal with the Faust? Assuming it’s synced, much less remarkable otherwise.

I guess if healing spells defaulted to <tt> then whoever you’re clicking on if not an enemy, it could help if they wanted to make heals more analogous to tank cds.

[SieyaM]

I can very easily see the reaction to giving healers very simple DPS rotations bein "this is too simple we need something better". Also giving any kind of DPS rotation to healers means that said rotations must not be interrupted by healing in anyway, for instance creating a combo that using a healing skill may break.

[ForsakenRoe]

I can very easily see the reaction to giving healers very simple DPS rotations bein "this is too simple we need something better". Also giving any kind of DPS rotation to healers means that said rotations must not be interrupted by healing in anyway, for instance creating a combo that using a healing skill may break.

EW made it so that combo actions don't get broken by ranged skills, so that point is moot. Secondly, most (tm) of the suggestions of 'what can we add to healers damage kits', mine included, do not involve 123 combos in any way, that's some melee garbo. Rather, people who make ideas for healer reworks seem to all unconsciously agree, standalone GCDs (like my 15sec CD Water GCD) or some kind of proc (ala RDM's VerStone Ready) are the way to go. It wouldn't matter if you have to cast 5 Medica's in a row, because a GCD with a seperate CD is, well, seperate, you press it and it ticks regardless of what else you do in the time it's ticking, and a X Ready proc doesn't care about your Medica spam, in the same way VerStone Ready doesn't care how many times you press Jolt. It's gonna be there for the next 30 seconds waiting to be used. IMO, this idea of 'well you cant have more damage kit because what if you need to heal, it'll break your combo' is just some low effort attempt to muddy the waters, and make it sound like it's hard to change healer DPS rotations in any way. It's not. All the different pitches of 'how can we make healer more interesting' prove this. I don't care if we get a 123 combo on healer, if we do fine whatever. But 123 is not the only way to make a damage kit interesting. If it was, BRD would have a 123 combo too. Unless someone wants to try and claim that the 3 songs count as a 123, but I'm sure nobody's that silly. Surely.

[Axxion]

As one of those tank players.

you missed one

[UkcsAlias]

I don't care if we get a 123 combo on healer, if we do fine whatever. But 123 is not the only way to make a damage kit interesting. If it was, BRD would have a 123 combo too. Unless someone wants to try and claim that the 3 songs count as a 123, but I'm sure nobody's that silly. Surely.

In the end its still the same. Button variety.

And on that a 123 is the easiest to make, but also the most boring one. It works for most classes because you already have a damage focus to begin with, and no button clutter. On some healers the button clutter would make such combo a lot less convenient. You want some strong heals within easy reach (in some dungeons you still need to resolve to spamming cure2 when tanks go big pulls). A 123 combo is on that just disruptive. So the bard method is indeed better in which you just get more conditional damage abilities. And if they dont trigger all the time, or rely on some other effects for recharging, it can add in some dps variety.

For example: you get a GCD dps ability that can have 2 charges, but relies on 15 ticks from the DoT to charge up (or 1 charge and not on GCD). It adds a second button that needs some spare awareness, its not disruptive your normal damage rotation/or disrupting potential heals. Yet it adds something else to watch for. Its a simple thing they can add, and even with little damage does something.

Another idea that i think could work: you have 2 abilities. After pressing 1, you enable both 1 and 2 for diffirent effects (1 is plain damage, 2 is damage and some extra bonus like for example boosting your damage by 5% for 10s). And after that you maybe even can get a 3rd iteration which in turn can even get an additional effect (pressing 1 gives higher damage now, pressing 2 applies another dot). This can give quite some complexity for DPSing in just 2 buttons. And this compactness is what we still need on a healer. As a bonus, it can still enable the constant 1 pressing which in some cases can still be desired as you might not have the time to focus on DPS (teams can demand more healing after all). You can even add in a 3rd button if you want to go 1, 2/3, 2/3 to allow resets.

SGE has some of this interaction already which did make it a bit more interesting at first. But it sadly still has the same 1111 as default dps. Its simply just not enough options being given for dps.