Brian from Work 2 Game is leaving FFXIV

[Atelier-Bagur]

I don't? Where have I said that? I'm not even saying that that's THE ONLY THING that's said here.

I'm saying that I simply pointed one thing out, that the game recently had a bunch of issues, and that the reaction I got to it was that they thought I was saying the game outright sucked. Which isn't true. That isn't what happened, at all. And I've had to clarify it a bunch of times.

Please state exactly where it is that I say "ANYONE" disagreeing is under the presumption the game is fine.
That white knights are trying to shut down any and all discussion.

I don't mind there being a discussion whatsoever, Atelier. Yet you're saying I'm acting this way, when I'm really not. And I'd love it if you could provide examples, because clearly I'm NOT doing a good job at showing that that's not what I think.

You know, before you accuse me of playing the victim card when in reality I think people just aren't getting what I'm saying and calling me really insulting shit just over one post.

I do think it's stupid that White Knights prevent any and all discussion. I'm saying, however, that that often does happen, and it's not just White Knights, it's people who never shut up about the games' flaws and can't look past anything negative.

Edit: If you want me to clarify, there's no win to either side. That's what I said. There ARE people who are just so blind that they cannot admit that there's been stuff that needs to be addressed, and the only ones who can do that are the dev team. But there are people who say that "the game's failing, the game's going downhill, there's no salvation, they need to fire the devs" when really they should just provide the devs with feedback and make it known that there needs to be a change.

Must I repeat this a thousand times?

"The game is just on a downhill slide and people who have any modicum of hope are just stupid.And it also has people that do nothing but dismiss valid complaints and acknowledge consecutive issues that need to be addressed for the game to remain healthy and shut down any conversation under the pretext of negativity."

Perhaps Im misreading your post here because I do understand what you mean when it comes to the forum community, but these two statements are confusing to me since it feels like examples but you didnt specify as such and sounds like something you believe is the case, which calling people whom are "hopeful" stupid is completely childish thing to throw at someone.

But you also keep saying that people are actively shutting down discussions or white knighting when that isnt even true at all. Everybody is free to post what they want and more often that naught we have more negative threads with a lot of people flocking to agree than those whom are trying to express their opposing point of view against the negativity yet THOSE same people whom flock to those threads bark down at them for their view point. So no, I dont believe in the fabled white knight syndrome people keep throwing around.

[Midareyukki]

"The game is just on a downhill slide and people who have any modicum of hope are just stupid.And it also has people that do nothing but dismiss valid complaints and acknowledge consecutive issues that need to be addressed for the game to remain healthy and shut down any conversation under the pretext of negativity."

Perhaps Im misreading your post here because I do understand what you mean when it comes to the forum community, but these two statements are confusing to me since it feels like examples but you didnt specify as such and sounds like something you believe is the case, which calling people whom are "hopeful" stupid is completely childish thing to throw at someone.

But you also keep saying that people are actively shutting down discussions or white knighting when that isnt even true at all. Everybody is free to post what they want and more often that naught we have more negative threads with a lot of people flocking to agree than those whom are trying to express their point of view yet THOSE same people bark down at them for their view point. So no, I dont believe in the fabled white knight syndrome people keep throwing around.

Okay, first off, thank you for telling me.

And no. That isn't "me" saying those things. What the post says is:
"As it stands, this forum in general has people that do nothing but complain and can't throw a bone at the developers when something good's done. The game is just on a downhill slide and people who have any modicum of hope are just stupid.
And it also has people that do nothing but dismiss valid complaints and acknowledge consecutive issues that need to be addressed for the game to remain healthy and shut down any conversation under the pretext of negativity."
As in
Right now, the forum has two kinds of people.
1 - People who only complain and can't say anything nice about the devs ever. TO THEM, the game is on a downhill slide, and there's zero way to salvage it other than firing the dev team
2 - People who do nothing but dismiss any sort of complaint, even when it's valid (such as people who go on the forum tags for actually decent posts about gripes with the game and write "whiners"). They just instantly say everyone is wrong and negative, and a conversation cannot grow out of it.

So I'm not saying that I agree that the game is going on a downhill spiral. I'm saying that there are people here (and you likely know which ones) tend to say the game has absolutely no salvation. Just as much as there are people here who take any form of criticism poorly.

And yes. There are people who do actively shut down conversations. I'm probably not being clear on the consistency here, but you're right, it doesn't happen all the time and it's not even the same people who do it.
What I do keep throwing around with that is what happened a few days ago, where I simply wrote "Yeah, there's actually been a lot of stuff happening since Endwalker's release that strike as odd. From stuff like a delayed, glitchy and overloaded launch, to gameplay elements like Housing or Hrothgar ears. And that you can't always justify these things with 'but they saved 1.0'. Great that they did, but at some point we need to look at the present and future as well, no?". Keep in mind, I could have mentioned far more, stuff that I have absolutely zero input or knowledge on like SAM's Kaiten. But the reaction I got were two guys on the forums saying that I was being overly dramatic and that the game was absolutely fine and how dare I not excuse what happened because ARR was saved and yada yada yada. And after trying to explain a bunch of times that I WASN'T saying the devs were utter trash, just that something happened and a lot has been happening recently in a short time frame, people just didn't care and I called them white knights.

Because that's what to me a white knight is. If after some point you still can't grasp that the person is just pointing out "Yo, this shit be weird, what up?" even if the person has been basically community jesus'd (joke, btw) is NOT you saying the devs suck massive Thal's, then you're just defending something to the point of blindness. I otherwise love the devs, look on the previous page for what I tell Aveyond. What I say so many times to other people. I'm just not always going to praise the devs when calling them out on a mistake. What I meant with what I wrote to Aword is that we need more in these forums than extremes. Because the devs can't take people who are capable of being reasonable criticising them if the environment they do it in is so toxic. Be it positive or negative.

Maybe my flaw was not pointing out there was more than just "two kinds of people". OBVIOUSLY there's more. It's just that for the effect that I was getting to, I was describing the two extremes we see here.

EDIT: @Atelier

@_@ post limit AGAIN

Alright, I apologize for that outburst of mine. Ive pulled a bit of an aveyond and didnt fully go through the reply posts you made earlier in the thread to fully grasp the meaning behind what you said.

However, I do recall seeing that thread where you made such a post but Im sorry, I still dont see how people were trying to shut you down at all, I dont recall them ever bully you down with their statements nor if their takes actually were that extreme. Could you at least link to where that thread and the page so I can read for myself? I just personally find when people say "actively try to shut down" conversation as something that is of the extreme case when it comes to a poster's post. Its very obvious to see if someone is that delusional and from what Ive been reading I dont see that happening for that side at the very least.

This one


I will admit I was not very gracious. But I don't think I could have made it any plainer past that. Especially when people read things that I never once mentioned.

Also... I'm a bit salty because my last post was apparently a freaking Magnai joke |D

Edit 2:

I didn’t intend to give my opinion about toxic positivity at first . My focus was on “constructive criticism.” However, since it was mentioned in the OP and kept being brought out by the following replies constantly that I decided to say something about it.

That is my poor attempt at mirroring the famous snaky quote and that part “where’s toxic positivity when you need it?” is nothing serious. I trolled at that part and I admit it’s inappropriate



No one wins, and I agree with you. But it’s certainly more painful to be on the negativity side because of doom and gloom. Though I do feel the other side is rather lonely on this very forum when the majority of the threads and their replies are negative along with the number of likes attached to each of them. If Reddit downvote has any meaning, I’m sure those under the banner of “constructive criticism “ would surely find a lot of warmth here. Yet we act as if toxic positivity is the biggest issue in official forum, which to my biased and limited observation, isn’t.

aaaa @@ I agree with youuuu.... I'm just angry now bc I need to edit this thing and make it freakishly long. But yes, you're right, it is worse to be actively negative all the time, because that ends up having a toll on your mental health. At least if you're positive you're not constantly focused on the flaws. Just >.º yeah, people also shouldn't lash out at people just bc they said one thing that was negative, it doesn't mean they're against the game or the devs. Odds are people just want to bring attention to things.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Okay, first off, thank you for telling me.

And no. That isn't "me" saying those things. What the post says is:
"As it stands, this forum in general has people that do nothing but complain and can't throw a bone at the developers when something good's done. The game is just on a downhill slide and people who have any modicum of hope are just stupid.
And it also has people that do nothing but dismiss valid complaints and acknowledge consecutive issues that need to be addressed for the game to remain healthy and shut down any conversation under the pretext of negativity."
As in
Right now, the forum has two kinds of people.
1 - People who only complain and can't say anything nice about the devs ever. TO THEM, the game is on a downhill slide, and there's zero way to salvage it other than firing the dev team
2 - People who do nothing but dismiss any sort of complaint, even when it's valid (such as people who go on the forum tags for actually decent posts about gripes with the game and write "whiners"). They just instantly say everyone is wrong and negative, and a conversation cannot grow out of it.

Maybe my flaw was not pointing out there was more than just "two kinds of people". OBVIOUSLY there's more. It's just that for the effect that I was getting to, I was describing the two extremes we see here.

Alright, I apologize for that outburst of mine. Ive pulled a bit of an aveyond and didnt fully go through the reply posts you made earlier in the thread to fully grasp the meaning behind what you said.

However, I do recall seeing that thread where you made such a post but Im sorry, I still dont see how people were trying to shut you down at all, I dont recall them ever bully you down with their statements nor if their takes actually were that extreme. Could you at least link to where that thread and the page so I can read for myself? I just personally find when people say "actively try to shut down" conversation as something that is of the extreme case when it comes to a poster's post. Its very obvious to see if someone is that delusional and from what Ive been reading I dont see that happening for that side at the very least.