Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Aurora428]

Wrong, MNK and NIN are a smidge too high, hitting each GCD combo hit by like 10 potency would smooth them out. Like BLM should be where MNK is now, and then MNK and NIN where DRG and SAM are, and then the rest all brought up to where they should be

This fluctuates per fight. The only who seems consistently lower end is DRG and its not by a lot.

That's fine and all, but the biggest issue that is where the "rest" should be. Because I would argue at least where RPR currently stands (which isn't even good, mind you) should be that baseline with RPR being moved up.

[CKNovel]

But do we even care if MNK and NIN are higher, even if it would be on all encounter?
The problem is not that they are a bit higher but that other jobs are way lower.

If they're higher, good for them. As long as the bottom is not lagging too far behind.
Pïcture a race where everyon must cross the finish line before 100 seconds everyone needs to finish. What needs balancing?
The one that complete with 20 extra seconds or the one that completes with barely 2 extra seconds?

[FireMage]

But do we even care if MNK and NIN are higher, even if it would be on all encounter?
The problem is not that they are a bit higher but that other jobs are way lower.

If they're higher, good for them. As long as the bottom is not lagging too far behind.
Pïcture a race where everyon must cross the finish line before 100 seconds everyone needs to finish. What needs balancing?
The one that complete with 20 extra seconds or the one that completes with barely 2 extra seconds?

I'm looking at the whole picture, not just what's dire

[Kabooa]

Pïcture a race where everyon must cross the finish line before 100 seconds everyone needs to finish. What needs balancing?
The one that complete with 20 extra seconds or the one that completes with barely 2 extra seconds?

You can (and should) balance from both ends, depending on the scenario.

In this specific question, given that you are intended to finish at ~100 seconds, this means that the person finishing around 95-99 seconds is about where they would want everyone to be, so the people finishing in 80-85 seconds need to be nerfed.

You don't need those knee caps anyways.

[CKNovel]

In this specific question, given that you are intended to finish at ~100 seconds, this means that the person finishing around 95-99 seconds is about where they would want everyone to be, so the people finishing in 80-85 seconds need to be nerfed.

I would understanding in PvP.
But in PvE this is the crab mentality, the feeling that we must pull others down.

If all jobs could complete the race in 80s then that race must be adapted to 80s.
Of course in the best of worlds, there wouldn't be such discrepancy, but here we have jobs 10% behind.

[fulminating]

What do you mean crab bucket mentality? If something is overtuned it's absurd to overtune everything else to match. In shadowbringers they cut the dot potency on summoner to make it less stellar rather than buffing everyone else.

[CKNovel]

What do you mean crab bucket mentality? If something is overtuned it's absurd to overtune everything else to match. In shadowbringers they cut the dot potency on summoner to make it less stellar rather than buffing everyone else.

SMN was different as in it was the best jobs in any value possible.
Of course the 20 seconds advance is clearly overtuned as I said "In the best of world there wouldn't be such discrepancy."

The crab mentality was meant to be directed at NIN/MNK being "overtuned".
Let's say all jobs can finish the race at the 95s mark but there's one job that can finish at the 92s mark.

Does it absolutely needs a nerf?

[Azuri]

SMN was different as in it was the best jobs in any value possible.
Of course the 20 seconds advance is clearly overtuned as I said "In the best of world there wouldn't be such discrepancy."

The crab mentality was meant to be directed at NIN/MNK being "overtuned".
Let's say all jobs can finish the race at the 95s mark but there's one job that can finish at the 92s mark.

Does it absolutely needs a nerf?

Bringing all the melees up instead of just lowering RPR after 6.0 is undeniably part of how we got to where we are now.

[CKNovel]

Bringing all the melees up instead of just lowering RPR after 6.0 is undeniably part of how we got to where we are now.

Indeed you're right.
They also buffed MNK.

Thought the same can be said, does other jobs absolutely needs a buff to get to that 92s mark?
I still completely agree, it's easier to nerf one than to buff others.

[Mithron]

Well the thing about nerfing jobs is that it makes everyone feel bad unless they are super absurdly broken, which no job honestly currently is. It isn't so much that melees are too good, because if they were then P8s wouldn't have needed nerfing, it's that non-melees are really bad right now. If you only buff, sure that introduces power creep for older content and can invalidate it, but this game is all about current and new content. So they can buff the bad jobs and the new fights released in future patches will be tuned for those buffs in mind. It's the most sensible solution, IMO. Nerfing is necessary for extreme outliers (like old SMN) but I don't think any job is at that level right now.