Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Urielparadox]

Factually wrong
Due to the role bonus, you will always have to pick at least 1 melee, 1 caster and 1 ranged for the sake of efficiency.
You have 1 flex spot that will most likely be taken by a melee as they offer more value to the group.

Therefore:
Melees compete for 2 spots among melees jobs.
Casters compete for 1 spot among casters jobs.
Rangeds compete for 1 spot among ranged jobs.

If all DPS competes with all DPS, then we would have 4 melees meta.

I still refuse to debate with you but correcting your so called "facts" will remain my guilty pleasure.
While remaining polite and not being personal of course.

I suggest you try to understand why everyone here disagrees with your takes.

This is unfortunately at the current "balance" 100% factually incorrect currently. You can currently do 3x melee partys and do vastly more damage than having 1 caster in the party. That is the major current issue. While fire mage has a lot wrong, you are extremely incorrect on this.

Nope, see you're still strawmanning. The party bonus has nothing to do with the fact that DPS compete with one another. Have a nice day, hope you figure it out

Incorrect when jobs are properly balanced, the 1% party bonus for having a cater outweighs having 3 dps. this greatly impacts dps competing for each other. If only 1 casted does viable damage, then that caster will be the only one allowed in content over another physical.

Which is happening currently p6 and p7 both have no mages which is very common.

[CKNovel]

This is unfortunately at the current "balance" 100% factually incorrect currently. You can currently do 3x melee partys and do vastly more damage than having 1 caster in the party. That is the major current issue. While fire mage has a lot wrong, you are extremely incorrect on this.

Let's clear up two points:

My intend was to bring up and explain the purpose of party bonus.
The state of the current balance doesn't change the purpose of party bonus.
Least, let's not forget party bonus also brings vitality and mind, both increases the party survival.

I would like you to back up your sources
I know for sure that theorycraft happened to replace rangeds with melees, but I've never seen it in practice, let alone actual proof the 1% is not worth a caster/range.
Currently, the fastest kills with 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS always includes at least one of the 3 roles.
The only non-standard teams often includes a 5th DPS instead of a healer.

This is why I'm doubting your claims, would you kindly back-up your claim?
If you could also bring the theorycraft, I would be grateful!

You think dark knight is the hardest tank? yeah no "lots of buttons" and spamming 1, 2, 3 isn't hard, Paladin and Gunbreaker are generally considered more difficult.

I've played Dark Knight and Gunbreaker this expansion.
I can confirm that DRK and GNB aren't hard to play at a level good enough to claim ultimate and week 1 clears.

PLD is much more difficult to play on its offensive rotation but also on management of defensive cooldowns.

[Housinginneed]

I've played Dark Knight and Gunbreaker this expansion.
I can confirm that DRK and GNB aren't hard to play at a level good enough to claim ultimate and week 1 clears.

PLD is much more difficult to play on its offensive rotation but also on management of defensive cooldowns.

Agreed, this is also what Xeno has said on his recent video, he considers DRK braindead easy and paladin the hardest to optimize, which clearly shows once again, difficulty is subjective.

[Rithy255]

I've played Dark Knight and Gunbreaker this expansion.
I can confirm that DRK and GNB aren't hard to play at a level good enough to claim ultimate and week 1 clears.

PLD is much more difficult to play on its offensive rotation but also on management of defensive cooldowns.

I think I pick PLD for comfort at this point because I've generally always "mained" it, But when leveling Drk/war particular I found it really easy to know what to do, Gunbreaker doesn't really have much of a learning curve either, The other tanks don't really compare to high end PLD.

Plds defensives are the one thing I'm not a big fan of, Holy Shelltron is generally fine (weird dot mechs and being stunned can suck for blocks) shared CD's (20% rampart and 30% mits), The problem with it's self healing being tied to your magic burst I never really control a big portion of your self sustain, I don't think cover should really exist, DV being worse shake, Passage can be good but I'm not a fan of how it works ect. I think PLDs defensive kit could use a big touch up in the future but I really doubt they're going to look at anything like that, I'd also like to see tanks have more unique defensive kit in general, I do find PLDs kit in defence just more clunky and situational in general, I think what annoys me is being lowest damage and having bad defensives but "meh pld utility tank" when Plds utility is pretty questionable at best.

I like PLD in general I would like some changes to the Job, but generally not to it's rotation (sadly it's likely going to get just rotation changes hopefully nothing that would ruin the job), I just want to keep the idenity offensively of being a skilled swordsman with strong magical powers, I really liked the sort of characters with great physical powers but also pretty good affinity for magic (hence me being a red mage enjoyer aswell), I also wouldn't want the difficulty in general to be bogged down too much, streamlining is fine just don't think it needs to be too streamlined... which im afraid of

[Semirhage]

Not balancing on difficulty does nothing but punish those that excel at higher complexity Jobs

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah "here's why this job I don't play deserves to be worse than mine in every single way" yak yak yak yak.

I've heard it a hundred times in the healer forums, it's just as stupid here.

Also melee aren't "complex". If anything, modern encounter design makes positionals and uptime a breeze. What they currently (and have always) heavily forced on players is movement. Why, then, given this design paradigm, are the "hardest to play/most rewarded" jobs not the casters then? Since their explicit weakness is needing to remain immobile for stretches of time?

[FireMage]

Factually wrong
Due to the role bonus, you will always have to pick at least 1 melee, 1 caster and 1 ranged for the sake of efficiency.
You have 1 flex spot that will most likely be taken by a melee as they offer more value to the group.

Therefore:
Melees compete for 2 spots among melees jobs.
Casters compete for 1 spot among casters jobs.
Rangeds compete for 1 spot among ranged jobs.

If all DPS competes with all DPS, then we would have 4 melees meta.

I still refuse to debate with you but correcting your so called "facts" will remain my guilty pleasure.
While remaining polite and not being personal of course.

I suggest you try to understand why everyone here disagrees with your takes.

Someone doesn't get how balance works and then strawmans, adorable

[Mithron]

Someone doesn't get how balance works and then strawmans, adorable

Yeah, that someone is you, Mr. King of Logical Fallacies

[SaberMaxwell]

Someone doesn't get how balance works and then strawmans, adorable

What is difficulty? Is it a rigid, static rotation? On one hand, you always know what you're going to hit next; you're always going to know the shape and form of the skill flow you're aiming for. On the other? Well, any failure will cascade.

Is it flexibility? The added level of decisionmaking means that the player is more responsible for knowing what they need to do to achieve the level they want to be at. Every gcd, another decision to make, but consequently its difficult to notice when a mistake has been made and generally easy to recover when mistakes are made.

Is it sheer jank? Is it extremely limited resources linked to mobility? Is it maintaining a gauge with an ability that shears 10 seconds off of that gauge that you need to spend every 30 seconds?

I don't know. This has been a question I pose to people who act hoity toity about how they should do more because "their job is more difficult." What is difficulty, what metric are we measuring by, and how is it going to correlate to damage?

At the end of the day I'd even argue that job complexity is nigh immaterial. You're going to learn the job enough to commit the bread and butter to muscle memory and learn how to apply it to the scenarios the fight gives you. Especially nowadays when if you ask anyone every job is braindead now.

[CKNovel]

Someone doesn't get how balance works and then strawmans, adorable

This is no strawman, neither about understanding balance.
I'm not making any argument, therefore I cannot make a strawman argument, I am simply stating a fact.

You cannot argue about the veracity of a fact, not even trying to downplay my post.
It is a fact whether you like it or not.

[FireMage]

Yeah, that someone is you, Mr. King of Logical Fallacies

I don't ever use logical fallacies

This is no strawman, neither about understanding balance.
I'm not making any argument, therefore I cannot make a strawman argument, I am simply stating a fact.

You cannot argue about the veracity of a fact, not even trying to downplay my post.
It is a fact whether you like it or not.

Your opinion is not fact, that's actually gross of you to try to state that