Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Housinginneed]

I've played Dark Knight and Gunbreaker this expansion.
I can confirm that DRK and GNB aren't hard to play at a level good enough to claim ultimate and week 1 clears.

PLD is much more difficult to play on its offensive rotation but also on management of defensive cooldowns.

Agreed, this is also what Xeno has said on his recent video, he considers DRK braindead easy and paladin the hardest to optimize, which clearly shows once again, difficulty is subjective.

[Rilifane]

Agreed, this is also what Xeno has said on his recent video, he considers DRK braindead easy and paladin the hardest to optimize, which clearly shows once again, difficulty is subjective.

There are few things that can be considered objectively more difficult like a clownfiesta is objectively more difficult to heal than a smooth run where nobody eats anything.
But it all falls apart the moment someone tries to apply the concept of difficulty to a class as a whole. There are so different answers to what someone even considers difficult.
Amount of buttons? APM? Rigidness? Timers? Procs? Limited mobility? Constant APM? High APM burst/ low APM downtime?

I'm personally better at adjusting on the fly than rigidly sticking to something so any job that is rigid is more difficult for me by nature. I'm better at BLM than GNB even though many would consider the former more difficult, especially when optimizing. Healing the most chaotic clownfiesta party in highend content is easier for me than DRG, I always have to spend a lot of time practicing the latter before even performing decently.
Someone else will be the opposite and perform better if the rotation or general gameplay is very rigid but struggle with any form of rng or unforseen circumstances.
For every single question you'll get different answers from different people and punishing people by getting locked out for enjoying a job that just so happens to not having to deal with some things is stupid.

People will play what they want unless pushed to the limit as we've seen this tier. People still played PLD until they hit a brickwall with the dps check and ended up being the deadweight by choosing the "wrong" class.
Saying that if a job was easy and brings good dps, nobody would play a job that has to put in more work for the same result is a myth that needs to die once and for all. Some people are drawn to classes that challenge them more and will always prefer them, doesn't matter if that other class right next to them gets the same result for something that would challenge them less. Some people just like specific aesthetics or gameplay and locking them out because they like the caster/ melee mix of RDM or the sustained dps from PLD but someone decided they're not deserving of week 1 clears goes against everything the devs tried to promote for this game.

If someone can't stand the thought that someone might deal the same damage for "less" work than just go for that class and stop crying. And if someone really enjoys the class, then what is even the problem with someone else getting the same result for "less" work? This is really just "waah waah I don't want that other kid to be good too waah waah" disguised as a noble goal.

[Rithy255]

I've played Dark Knight and Gunbreaker this expansion.
I can confirm that DRK and GNB aren't hard to play at a level good enough to claim ultimate and week 1 clears.

PLD is much more difficult to play on its offensive rotation but also on management of defensive cooldowns.

I think I pick PLD for comfort at this point because I've generally always "mained" it, But when leveling Drk/war particular I found it really easy to know what to do, Gunbreaker doesn't really have much of a learning curve either, The other tanks don't really compare to high end PLD.

Plds defensives are the one thing I'm not a big fan of, Holy Shelltron is generally fine (weird dot mechs and being stunned can suck for blocks) shared CD's (20% rampart and 30% mits), The problem with it's self healing being tied to your magic burst I never really control a big portion of your self sustain, I don't think cover should really exist, DV being worse shake, Passage can be good but I'm not a fan of how it works ect. I think PLDs defensive kit could use a big touch up in the future but I really doubt they're going to look at anything like that, I'd also like to see tanks have more unique defensive kit in general, I do find PLDs kit in defence just more clunky and situational in general, I think what annoys me is being lowest damage and having bad defensives but "meh pld utility tank" when Plds utility is pretty questionable at best.

I like PLD in general I would like some changes to the Job, but generally not to it's rotation (sadly it's likely going to get just rotation changes hopefully nothing that would ruin the job), I just want to keep the idenity offensively of being a skilled swordsman with strong magical powers, I really liked the sort of characters with great physical powers but also pretty good affinity for magic (hence me being a red mage enjoyer aswell), I also wouldn't want the difficulty in general to be bogged down too much, streamlining is fine just don't think it needs to be too streamlined... which im afraid of

[MagiusNecros]

I think Paladin is going to get hit with the 2 minute curse. Probably some auto crit too.

I dunno if their defensives will be touched at all.

Passage could be better if it did more for the restriction it imposes or just acts as a 20 second AoE Sentinel for the party. I think for being a 2 minute wonder it should be stronger then a Rampart.

I'd rather see more raidwide mitigation on PLD. Or things that make the PLD Tankier option with a lot of bulk.

One can argue that a Sage has a lot of damage shields and mitigation options that I would prefer to see on a Tank like PLD then a healer.

[CKNovel]

I think Paladin is going to get hit with the 2 minute curse. Probably some auto crit too.

I dunno if their defensives will be touched at all.

That would be the most deaf rework we'd ever see.
From what I gathered, PLD is popular among PLD due to its sustained damage rotation.
This made me curious and I actually want to try as well, but not until they rework the Oath Gauge, the block and buffs the defensive.

Oath gauge being on a gauge that fills after auto attack is terrible during downtime.
Cover is worthless, no reason to use it outside pvp.
Hallowed Ground is now the weakest of all invuln due to its too long cooldown. PLD self healing is worthless during HG.

And that's only a part of the problems. For a tank with a shield, it's paradoxal it has the worst defensive.

[Keichi]

Like i sayed in the other thread, am i agains the idea, that rng are making as much dmg as meele.

But, i agree that blm, Sam and mch should be the top of the 3 great categories, because the have the same function and should be near.

Difficulty is a useless point for deciding, how much dmg a class should do. Because, it is completly individually.

I was a caster, until i reach lvl 75. At that lvl was i unable to use any caster (mages and healers), because they had to many stuff, i needed to watch. The result was countless missplays and i was unable to watch the battle field.

At that time was meele (nin, later monk) and dancer much easier for me to play.

It changed, after a break and reorganice my skills. I overcame lvl 75 and was able to play the caster again.

Now, with 90, is it completly reversed. It is so much easier for me to play blm, as any meele caster. The blm feels the most naturaly to me now.
Meele became harder, because of positionals (even, when the numbers of skills was reduced), because, i move slower as i press the skills. And im not able to reach each direction every time.

Even Red mage feels easy to me. Because it is allways only two skills you need to use at once. Only the meele part is forcing me out of my flow.

It is personaly. But a example, how differently "Difficulty' can be.

[SaberMaxwell]

Bro, do you do any content where any job is difficult?

[Mithron]

Like i sayed in the other thread, am i agains the idea, that rng are making as much dmg as meele.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ivtrix]

Bro, do you do any content where any job is difficult?

A detailed forensic analysis reports no.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

That would be the most deaf rework we'd ever see.

The rework is coming from the same devs that removed Kaiten because button bloat. I don't main, play or care about Paladin in the slightest but call me pessimistic on the outlook on that job's mini-rework. I will be pleasantly surprised if Paladin comes out for the better. But...I doubt that'll be the case.

Snip

You're back!!!! This thread hasn't been the same since you disappeared :'(