Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[Aikaal]

1% is less than 10.7% What even are you trying at here?

"Ranged Physical are only 2.5% between each other. This is fine."

But the best melee and the worst ranged physical is 10.7%.

If the 11th DPS is 1% behind the 10th DPS and you keep that trend then it'll end up being 11%. This is extremely high. This is why it doesn't work and you'd want ideally 4% to 5% between the best and worst DPS.

1% at this stage is 100 DPS. That's significant.

Edit; This is also why someone told you 1% more DPS was a significant reason to play a job over another

[Aurora428]

"Ranged Physical are only 2.5% between each other. This is fine."

But the best melee and the worst ranged physical is 10.7%.

If the 11th DPS is 1% behind the 10th DPS and you keep that trend then it'll end up being 11%. This is extremely high. This is why it doesn't work and you'd want ideally 4% to 5% between the best and worst DPS.

1% at this stage is 100 DPS. That's significant.

It's weird to me how much people cherry pick comparing based in role and out of role.

People say stuff like "RDM should do more than prange!" or "BLM should do more than melee!" and then suddenly the comparison to prange is "2.5% in role" like that's nothing

Either that 10.7% matters or it doesn't. If interrole balance doesn't matter (it most definitely does) then the position that BLM is in is perfectly fine, because it does so much damage than the other casters, and its comparison to everything else is irrelevant.

Is that the way we really want the game to be balanced? I'm going to say clearly not.

[Aikaal]

It's weird to me how much people cherry pick comparing based in role and out of role.

People say stuff like "RDM should do more than prange!" or "BLM should do more than melee!" and then suddenly the comparison to prange is "2.5% in role" like that's nothing

Either that 10.7% matters or it doesn't. If interrole balance doesn't matter (it most definitely does) then the position that BLM is in is perfectly fine, because it does so much damage than the other casters, and its comparison to everything else is irrelevant.

Is that the way we really want the game to be balanced? I'm going to say clearly not.

But it's not because back in Stormblood, the tax favoring melee was validate due to fight designs.

Nowadays, melee DPS play like ranged physical and simply deal 10% more damage.

Comp used to be melee/caster/ranged physical/flex

Now it's double melee/caster/ranged physical, it's not even a question.

It's only going to be worst as they design more jobs. I wouldn't be surprise if they only release 1 new job. If it was a difference of 5% in ShB and now it's 10%. WHat will be 7.0? Even more jobs will be ignored. So yeah, it is important.

As far as I'm concerned ADPS > RDPS and you can't convince me otherwise. This obsession with RDPS is unhealthy.

Only thing I agree on is if you provide a good amount of RDPS your ADPS should be lower and if you have no RDPS then your ADPS should be higher.

They should just get off their high horse and make Phoenix Downs(you can only carry 1 per player at any given time so that's a balancing act in itself) usable in combat if Raise balance is such an issue.

There's not a better. Both metrics have caveats but rDPS is more accurate. It considers all buffs so a job like Machinist is not wrongly mistaken as being "ok"

Might be different on roles like Tanks because none of them have raid DPS buff but we're not talking tanks.

[Rithy255]

It's weird to me how much people cherry pick comparing based in role and out of role.

People say stuff like "RDM should do more than prange!" or "BLM should do more than melee!" and then suddenly the comparison to prange is "2.5% in role" like that's nothing

Either that 10.7% matters or it doesn't. If interrole balance doesn't matter (it most definitely does) then the position that BLM is in is perfectly fine, because it does so much damage than the other casters, and its comparison to everything else is irrelevant.

Is that the way we really want the game to be balanced? I'm going to say clearly not.

I think when you look at the difference in 2.5% in ranged alone it sounds "fine"
But Machinist having zero (ranged shields are bassically a role action with different icons/names) utility, doing the least total damage really stings when you compare it to dancer (which i find is easier then mch, has so much utility), it even has dashes lol, like theirs currently zero reason to pick machinist outside enjoyment.

I think when you compare RDM or SMN to BLM, you can at least point to better mobility, raise and utility on both as a reason for them to be behind.

General all classes should be balanced in around 4-5% of each other, A class with mobility and utility, (high skill, but idk theirs not much "skill" to push a job to be a lot higher) ect. Are all reasons to slightly move up the job, at the end of the day, alot of this is my opinion but it shouldn't be that hard to reach a relative middle ground where allowing skill expression to exist without pushing a job too far below the others for having mobility, ease of use utility ect.

[Aikaal]

I think when you look at the difference in 2.5% in ranged alone it sounds "fine"
But Machinist having zero (ranged shields are bassically a role action with different icons/names) utility, doing the least total damage really stings when you compare it to dancer (which i find is easier then mch, has so much utility), it even has dashes lol, like theirs currently zero reason to pick machinist outside enjoyment.

I think when you compare RDM or SMN to BLM, you can at least point to better mobility, raise and utility on both as a reason for them to be behind.

General all classes should be balanced in around 4-5% of each other, A class with mobility and utility, (high skill, but idk theirs not much "skill" to push a job to be a lot higher) ect. Are all reasons to slightly move up the job, at the end of the day, alot of this is my opinion but it shouldn't be that hard to reach a relative middle ground where allowing skill expression to exist without pushing a job too far below the others for having mobility, ease of use utility ect.

2.5% between roles would be fine if those jobs weren't all at the bottom.Like RDM&SMN would be fine to be 3% behind BLM. Except they're all at the bottom. THe real issue is the current taxes don,t fit the new fight designs heavily favoring melee DPS by 8% to 10%. Casters and Physc Ranged are actually balanced between each other with BLM being a bit too high and MCH being too low. The issue is the melee role lol.

[FireMage]

you'd want ideally 4% to 5% between the best and worst DPS.

Which is basically what I've been saying. If you aren't going to bother reading then dismiss yourself

[Aikaal]

Which is basically what I've been saying. If you aren't going to bother reading then dismiss yourself

You should reread yourself saying 1% doesn't matter but suddenly 1% on 11 different job all together is 10.7%.

You should consider thinking and learning basic maths. If jobs we're 0.4% to 0.5% of each other; we'd be fine.

"You are dismissed mister one trick RDM player who think he can talk for all DPS."

[FireMage]

You should reread yourself saying 1% doesn't matter but suddenly 1% on 11 different job all together is 10.7%.

You should consider thinking and learning basic maths. If jobs we're 0.4% to 0.5% of each other; we'd be fine.

1% from top to bottom is insignificant, hence why balancing top to bottom around it is bad. If you choose not to read I won't gift you a reply

[Aikaal]

1% from top to bottom is insignificant, hence why balancing top to bottom around it is bad. If you choose not to read I won't gift you a reply

That's just mean we'd really have a melee/ranged/caster/flex. Honestly, it'd work but it's not gonna happen.

I read you fine. You said that it should be 5% between worst and best. Also, you said Summoner (currently on the bottom 7% behind Monk on P6S) deserves a nerf. I read you perfectly fine that you have no coherence and you make no sense.

Your opinion is not required anymore.

[CKNovel]

1% from top to bottom is insignificant, hence why balancing top to bottom around it is bad. If you choose not to read I won't gift you a reply

You should consider thinking and learning basic maths. If jobs we're 0.4% to 0.5% of each other; we'd be fine.

you'd want ideally 4% to 5% between the best and worst DPS.

They aren't asking for 1% from top to bottom but for 0.4%/0.5% between each jobs.
As we have 11 DPS jobs, that would be 4.4%~5.5%.

Or maybe did I skipped a part?

The current problem is that most jobs only offers rDPS with some jobs creating grey lines of value due to their healing/mitigation.
This might be a solution, utility that could make the DPS differences between jobs insignificant.