Bizarre burnout

[VelKallor]

Like I said before, in the expansions they removed the requirement to need multiple crafting classes leveled to complete crafting quests.

Did they?

I seem to recall needing LW , ARM and other jobs to make gear back then, as well as craft quest items.

Yes, you can go gather on miner if you have mining leveled high enough to make some ingots

What? Iron ore is a level 15 item. Ingots are made by both BSM and ARM, again low level....btw I hate to be the one to remind you of this, but those ores are easily obtainable at vendors in all the cities for dirt cheap prices.

Just because it's been in the game since day one doesn't mean that it's a good low level design or not frustrating to deal with for new players.

It works fine...take that from someone who was here and levelled crafting pre nerfs, pre Restoration. THAT was painful.

Otherwise there's no way you're getting everything maxed with beast tribe quests and GC turn ins alone

GC turn ins, collectibles at 50 that give humungous xp, tribes like the ixal, daily leves that also give a hunk of exp, the craft quests hand out tools and gear ( they do, remember? ). in all truth you can power level crafters making one set of items

ALL the crafter houses have vendors that again sell low level mats at dirt cheap prices, so materials arent an issue.

Gridania, Ferrol at the CRP guild, Osgyth at the LW guild..and you CAN INDEED by one piece of ore, or a dozen from these vendors. ( I am standing in front of him now ) Smydhaemr and Soemrwyb at the BSM / ARM guilds at Limsa....or didnt you know those vendors existed?

They sell copper ore, tin ore, iron ore, copper ingots, brass ingots,.maple and ash lumber, leather, hard leather ..all you need for low level crafting...and all dirt cheap.

You LITERALLY have zero need to go to the MB, as these are all available at your fingertips.

I really suggest you go tour the craft halls and see for yourself.

If letting a level 25 carpenter craft all the craftable materials they need to make a level 25 Bow of You're-Gonna-Just-Give-This-To-An-NPC-Anyway

Every crafter has their own storyline, and that one, as I remember......

.....saves the life of your craftmasters dearest friend..and yours as well.

Im sorry but to me it looks like you havent actually looked more closely at just how much is provided for you....and how much easier it is now than it was three years ago.

[NekoMataMata]

A lot of older players I talk to have this weird "the game was better before it got popular" kind of attitude. I have no idea what I'm missing out on though, so I can't really relate.

[VelKallor]

Neko, IMO the game is better now..but take it from me, levelling crafting in 2019 was....painful. I had to make an hq item for a craft quest, less than a few weeks into the game, craft failed , I lost my hq helm component that had ALREADY been a pain to make.

I "almost" threw the keyboard at the wall...then sighed and went back to it. You dont want to know what I said aloud.

I have levelled all crafters a few times, and trust me, now? Is a cakewalk as opposed to how it used to be.

[Darthgummibear]

A lot of older players I talk to have this weird "the game was better before it got popular" kind of attitude. I have no idea what I'm missing out on though, so I can't really relate.

You don't have to be an older player to notice some of this stuff. I just started playing last year and there's definitely things from earlier parts of the game where you can tell a clear difference in quality/direction.

[Anodic]

Did they?

I seem to recall needing LW , ARM and other jobs to make gear back then, as well as craft quest items.

LVL 63 Carpenter Quest: The Game of Confidence. The NPCs provide you with the item "Dressing Case Materials" in order to make the "Lavish Dressing Case" item. So yes, in the expansion quests, the NPCs start to provide you with what you need already. And again, you're assuming that the new player has picked up BSM or ARM in that situation. A new Carpenter that finds out they would have to go all the way to the 2nd floor of Limsa just to pick up BSM or ARM, and then would have to level them to 13 or 16, could rather very much choose to circumvent that completely and just purchase the ingots flat out. Because even though the ores might be CHEAP to obtain, you still have to go out of your way to level another class to put them to use, and some people might just not feel like going through that at the time. And my point about not being able to purchase individual items is about the MARKET BOARD player listings, not NPC vendors. You can't buy 1 ingot from a PLAYER's stack of 99 that they have listed.

Your leveling of crafters in the past has nothing to do with how a new player might feel now. The demographic of new MMO players is different now than it was back then. People are far quicker to give up on things that frustrate them nowadays then they were before. A functional system =/= one that's automatically fun or not annoying to deal with. There's a reason why so many games change old systems when their remasters come out. Do you really think a new player wouldn't find it annoying/jarring that they're just leveling their first crafter, knowing nothing of 99% of crafting mechanics yet, and suddenly they're hit with a: "To do this next quest, you're going to have to pick up these two other classes from two other cities and level them up enough to craft this one item you need for this quest you were trying to complete like an hour or two ago"? And I don't understand why you're bringing up crafter storyline at all here? What does that have anything to do with the argument? Are you saying that because this item you're making saves an NPC from death in a cutscene you'll see once and never again, that's good enough reason to not bring the old ARR crafting quests in line with modern standards? The item you make in the same exact fashion as other items you gave to the same NPC before over and over again?

It might be easier to level now than it was back in the day, but that's not the issue here. New players aren't going to know about all these super efficient/juicy ways of getting crafting exp fast. They aren't going to know what classes they need to complete the crafting quests of what crafting job they're trying to focus on at the time. You might think it's so easy and simple and quick nowadays, but for someone that knows absolutely nothing about the game or the crafting system? I guarantee you that you'll rarely find someone that reacts to a sudden wall of "I know you're trying to complete this class's quest, but you need to pick up these two other classes first to finish it" in a positive way. No one likes having to take a detour when they're just trying to drive home. Crafting in the ARR section of the game will be someone's first impression of what crafting is like, and as levels keep getting higher and higher, that first impression will get more and more important.

[VelKallor]

Your leveling of crafters in the past has nothing to do with how a new player might feel now

Did it at least 4 times, pre and post, from scratch , so yes I do know.

The demographic of new MMO players is different now than it was back then.

..mate, Im almost 61, and have been gaming since the 90's. I know more than you realise.

People are far quicker to give up on things that frustrate them nowadays then they were before

Thats a them problem. If you throw the towel in when things get a little difficult, thats not the games fault.

Crafting takes patience.

A functional system =/= one that's automatically fun or not annoying to deal with.

.....yeah..not true at all.

. And my point about not being able to purchase individual items is about the MARKET BOARD player listings, not NPC vendors. You can't buy 1 ingot from a PLAYER's stack of 99 that they have listed.

You can craft them at level 15 which is hardly a major problem. ARM and BSM both at the same craft hall in Limsa.

There are comprehensive online guides, there is the NN, there are mentors, they have plenty of help.

i dont see an issue here.

[SentioftheHoukai]

..mate, Im almost 61, and have been gaming since the 90's. I know more than you realise.

Uuuuuuhhhh... That's a pretty weird flex, bruh. Need we start fearing some good old fashioned "Back in my day!" next?

[VelKallor]

Uuuuuuhhhh... That's a pretty weird flex, bruh. Need we start fearing some good old fashioned "Back in my day!" next?

Just a general response to the comment on demographics, Senti. I was involved ( to a small extent ) in the gaming industry since the 90's, and have learned a lot in that time.

Back in the days? Not really my thing, but...I sure as hell dont miss the days of being knocked offline when a phone call came in.

[Carin-Eri]

*Snip, because character limit*

Definitely sounds like you need a break!

I will note, though, that one saving grace of FFXIV is the lack of FOMO. I feel this is often overlooked, but it really shouldn't be taken for granted.
The MMO I played prior to FFXIV was very much committed to a FOMO model. They created high-pressure events that coerce or funnel players into a specific activity that, in most cases, they hate but feel like they have to put up with in order to get a reward (and then point at the predictably-high engagement numbers as "proof" that players like that activity to justify maintaining said business model).

Even going on holiday meant missing 'event progress' and therefore missing out on an event reward - though this was deliberate since they had/have a 'buyout' option where you could use their cash shop to either buy the event out in it's entirety or buy event progress for the days you missed. And failing that, they put the item/reward from the event in the cash store itself, as part of an expensive bundle (of mostly 'fluff' items to justify a higher price) at a later date.

I really don't miss that sort of sleazy business model at all and applaud FFXIV for not having gone down that path.

So yeah, take a break - the game, unlike others, doesn't punish you for doing so.

[kaynide]

Re: weird crafting debate:

I have leveled all my crafters to cap exclusively on weekly tribes, GC leves, NPC deliveries and the newer 70+/80+ trade-ins. I never even touched the Rowena scrip trade-ins and never needed to.

1 stack of 100 GC leves was easily enough to get a job to 50 back in the 2.x/3.x days.. with the xp boost I’m sure it’s more. The hardest part for me was to get it to 50 only because the only real source I had was the GC leves. Now you have the Ixal, so I imagine it’s even easier.


I’m not sure what the complaints are about getting materials, but if it is a money issue, pick and choose GCs that are the cheapest per leve or offer a profit. The only reason you would need to do otherwise is because you can’t wait for leve allowance to replenish.

Moreover, nothing requires you to do any crafter quest as soon as it is available. You can easily get to (for example) 50 before doing all of the 1-50 set. And it will be much much easier with the 50 gear…assuming you even need to make anything at all (I wanna say I just bought whatever was requested off the MB until maybe ShB)