VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

[Midareyukki]

Aww, that's nice to read. I seemed to be at odds with hrothgar players there for awhile, but I was coming from a place of support, even if many hrothgar players didn't like how I worded things. I am a heavily aesthetics oriented player, and even if I don't necessarily like certain things I am still, generally, for more options (again, within reason), whenever available for the players who want them, and the quality of which everyone deserves. Like I have said in the past, I thought viera and hrothgar were in the same boat, and I am pretty sure hrothgar players didn't like me saying that either.

Eh, water under the bridge tbh. I wasn't making it easy either by being so blundering and insensitive. I've had enough time to think of what happened and I understand that you wanted us to exercise caution, patience, and above all, respect for the dev team. Because you were right. Things were not as clear-cut or black-and-white as we were making it. There are rules. And just because some people can perform better under those rules, or make a better job than Square by bending or breaking them, it doesn't mean it will match reality.

As for the "same boat" bit, it's not that we hated it. It's that the general feeling at the time was that even if Viera were discriminated against by the development team alongside Hrothgar, fan demand will make sure that Viera get attention first and/or with better quality. And I said so before it wasn't out of bad faith.
- You guys are the ones Square has been listening to when it comes to feedback the most. You know... WHEN they deign to listen.
- You guys had Male Viera first, we didn't even think they'd be made. Meanwhile we have Misija and Gunnhildr, two Roegadyn taking the very obvious roles of female Hrothgar.
- And Viera are constantly being mentioned by the development team, Hrothgar rarely ever are. When they are, Viera are talked about as well. And it got really stinky in April 1st when they didn't even bother say anything further about the hairstyles, they just said "Ope! Have some renders! LOL amirite? Moving on!"
It's why I said "when you innevitably get fixed first". Generally speaking, Hrothgar still believe wholeheartedly that Viera will be tended to first, and Hrothgar will be taken care of dead-last with whatever time they have left to scrounge up stuff for us. It isn't a diss to Viera. It's a diss to Square. We view Viera as an unfortunate ally who understands where things went wrong. One we don't want to lose.

But it's also selfish from us, isn't it? Kind of holding YOU back from greatness, simply because we're deemed too unpopular to matter. Fearing that you guys will be complete when we'll be dead last and likely still plagued with issues. And I don't want it to come across as that; I want Vieras to enjoy themselves, as fully as possible. "Just don't forget us after". It sounds like I'm fishing for pity points, but I'm not. Viera deserve what they can get. So do Hrothgar, but I don't want Viera to feel left out either way. I'd say the same and support any other race had they suffered through the same.

By all standards though, we are on the same boat. Our issues are just different, and plenty of Viera at the time pointed out that Hrothgar can wear more headgear than Vieras can. But you guys have the power (and with great power comes great responsability I guess?) of being popular and garnering attention. It's up to you to do what you want with it, though. All we have going for us is chivalry and perceived cuteness ^^;

We tried roaring. Square didn't so much as make a peep about re-adding the ears, and even those have a weird texture around them. Doesn't seem like we can garner much.

So really, Churro? Nah, I speak for myself that I did get it. And since then our threads have been a bit more moderate, so I think the others did too.

...

Also wow this part was poorly written xD

I fear so much for Hrothgar would not have had been done had it not been for Viera players also joining in and help us boost our threads

Grammar? What's that?
"I fear that a lot of what Hrothgar have wouldn't have been made had Viera players not joined in and helped boost our threads and provide feedback"
There we go. Now I don't sound like Dr. Mundo.

[SturmChurro]

...

Like I have said before, I thought the initial outrage was more than acceptable after waiting close to three years and getting what you all got. I went through my own combination of emotions after waiting two and a half years for hairs, lying to myself about the "best" race, and wasting fantasias. I only in reality want to play viera, and I know others have a very similar feeling whether it's hrothgar or viera, so I will always be in support of proper, quality, updates to raise these races to a higher standard; to get the updates they deserve and the players who have waited literal years deserve.

I have tried to refrain from speaking on hrothgar too much more in more recent, but it seems I could never really pull my support from them. They are really the only beast race option for players who want that, and I don't have some prejudice against players who do want that. They do deserve better. I have read that sentiment, that hrothgar are what was holding back male viera, or viera updates; that hrothgar players asking for more, was preventing viera of what could be. It's definitely not fair to blame hrothgar players for that. I see updates for one as updates for the other. Male viera were added, so female hrothgar will be added. For that matter, male hrothgar, as has been shown previously, are a fairly substantial niche, and would probably be larger if it wasn't for many of the limiting features of the race.

We need to hold SE to a higher standard, collectively. I do think SE is capable of it, and we shouldn't settle for less.

[Vahlnir]

We need to hold SE to a higher standard, collectively. I do think SE is capable of it, and we shouldn't settle for less.

Sadly, a lot of people don't hold SE to a higher standard, and any criticism being spoken about them is met with "shut up and be grateful" because of some weird worship culture. SE knows this, too. If they can get away with minimal effort for maximum profit, then they most certainly will. It's just good business and I can't really fault them for that. Until the day comes when they can't get away with this stuff, we won't see any meaningful change.

[Wind-Krysvein]

I'd sacrifice every shoe in the game for paws! Not even our starting racial gear were paws, we were r o b b e d!

It hurts me how good those look! ARGH

[SturmChurro]

Sadly, a lot of people don't hold SE to a higher standard, and any criticism being spoken about them is met with "shut up and be grateful" because of some weird worship culture. SE knows this, too. If they can get away with minimal effort for maximum profit, then they most certainly will. It's just good business and I can't really fault them for that. Until the day comes when they can't get away with this stuff, we won't see any meaningful change.

Definitely true, it's probably why Yoshida has been apparently "surprised" by certain feedback. People need to remember we are paying customers; it's a give and take. We should be striving for a higher quality product - so should SE. So, as I do care, I will continue to give my feedback even if it's lost or never read by SE, in the hopes that maybe some of it will be. Also, I just like talking about things I am interested in.

[Midareyukki]

I have tried to refrain from speaking on hrothgar too much more in more recent, but it seems I could never really pull my support from them. They are really the only beast race option for players who want that, and I don't have some prejudice against players who do want that. They do deserve better. I have read that sentiment, that hrothgar are what was holding back male viera, or viera updates; that hrothgar players asking for more, was preventing viera of what could be.

o,o no, we just don't want people to go through what we're going through + not go through what we're going through any more.

If people feel that way, they're d**ks >: c

Speak all you need to.

Sadly, a lot of people don't hold SE to a higher standard, and any criticism being spoken about them is met with "shut up and be grateful" because of some weird worship culture. SE knows this, too. If they can get away with minimal effort for maximum profit, then they most certainly will. It's just good business and I can't really fault them for that. Until the day comes when they can't get away with this stuff, we won't see any meaningful change.

I have... had... faith that this dev team would be more benevolent to its fans and actively listen. Especially after 1.0 being the disaster train it was, them realizing giving fans what they want is a solid way to go and not make corporate-laced half-baked promises and falling immensely flat afterward. That's how the rest of Square Enix acts, a fact I don't think many people realize. Square Enix as a company is god-awful, just look at Brave Exvius, how FF15's development went by... stuff like that. Viera and Hrothgar launch left much to be desired, but people were cool with it because we assumed, given the devs we had, "ah yes, they're incomplete, but they'll work on them as the game goes along, right? ....right?".

...thing is, they didn't. 3 years have passed, they barely ever touched us and it feels like when they do, it's out of posturing and tantrums. Like "URGH FINE, STOP TALKING, GUUUUHHH".

And people defending that sort of behaviour, people defending their lax grip on quality, isn't helping anyone, not even the devs. Because people keep moving the goalpost, and being too lax on what back then would definitely not have happened. We did tell the dev team before to take a break because they deserved it. We didn't tell them to grow complacent when committing to adding stuff to the game.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I'd sacrifice every shoe in the game for paws! Not even our starting racial gear were paws, we were r o b b e d!

I, Would, KILL for the ability to give up footwear, and in return get Bare Digitigrade Or Even clawed Platigrade feet for my Hrothgar! (Jk I wouldnt actually kill)

[Adamantini]

So while I think that for now we need to focus on bringing both races up to par and exercise patient. And with that, I'll even ask Vieras to not abandon us Hrothgar when Vieras get innevitably finished first... I fear so much for Hrothgar would not have had been done had it not been for Viera players also joining in and help us boost our threads, for better or worse. And these traits must come later

I would never do that, for I can imagine myself in the shoes of anyone who chose hrothgar.
It's easier for me to give up on the game itself, which I've honestly started to do. If I find a new MMORPG, I don't think you'll ever see me around here again.

[RyuDragnier]

I, Would, KILL for the ability to give up footwear, and in return get Bare Digitigrade Or Even clawed Platigrade feet for my Hrothgar! (Jk I wouldnt actually kill)

I wouldn't, but I find the lack of footwear with things like that to be a copout. Look at GW2, Charr have feet like that and they STILL have shoes.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I wouldn't, but I find the lack of footwear with things like that to be a copout. Look at GW2, Charr have feet like that and they STILL have shoes.

I mean for me (and others), give the ability to do it, as an option.
I dont mean globally get rid of footgear for Hrothgar. But If I had an option for bare feet: clawed and digitigrade or Platigrade....no contest, give it to me bby