How to easily have healers dps engaged ( yet another thread)

[sergel02]

I like to believe the reason Sage is essentially "easier SCH" is because the devs were hesitant to try how a dps healer would function or is received, since they're testing new waters, and after everything is settled they'll expand more into that identity for 7.0. *inhales hopium*

That said, I'd be really disappointed, but not surprised, if they just upgrade Dosis, add more healing ogcds, and call it a day. At the very least, give us an aoe Kardia!

I really wish Soteria applied applied a weaker, AOE heal to the party.

I overall like the healers but still waiting for some changes. I wish we had an Afflatus spell that applied shields on a cooldown and I’m shocked we still don’t. I can only use Rapture so much.

Sage I like overall but it’s DPS feels the most boring for a job that’s supposed to be the DPS healer. My biggest issue is how your get Addersting stacks. I wish they would keep toxicon the same since it has a cool animation, but you got Addersting stacks from the shield and also using some of your Addersgall heals. It would make it easier to use toxicon for movement and double weaving I suppose, and at least we’d use it more in a battle. I know some sages like to know when to plan to use it and having a limited amount, but I just dislike how Addersting are currently gained.

[Supersnow845]

I like to believe the reason Sage is essentially "easier SCH" is because the devs were hesitant to try how a dps healer would function or is received, since they're testing new waters, and after everything is settled they'll expand more into that identity for 7.0. *inhales hopium*

That said, I'd be really disappointed, but not surprised, if they just upgrade Dosis, add more healing ogcds, and call it a day. At the very least, give us an aoe Kardia!

I doubt it unfortunately, if they really wanted SGE to be a proper DPS healer and not “I can force eos to only target the tank instead of whoever she wants” then they could have based it off everything from disc priest to “old WHM/SCH with developed kardia”

Square just utterly refuses to leave behind the “I spam diagnosis and call it a playstyle” so SGE will never be more than basic kardia

[Allegor]

Honestly, I can see the intend of the toxicon mechanic. As someone who plays only on a casual level, I'd gladly sacrifice a gcd if it meant I can shield a non-tank party member from getting hit (which happens A LOT in dungeons and alliance raids), since that's what shields are for, but I can also see how it's essentially worthless for the raiding environment.

While I'm no fan of homogenization in general, and Twelve know healers are the ones that need it the least, I think it'd make sense if Toxicon becomes Sage's version of Misery - get adderstings as a reward for shielding, get 3 stacks and you get a big boom spell.

[Jonathan_Clover]

While I'm no fan of homogenization in general, and Twelve know healers are the ones that need it the least, I think it'd make sense if Toxicon becomes Sage's version of Misery - get adderstings as a reward for shielding, get 3 stacks and you get a big boom spell.

I'd love for them to do SOMETHING more with Toxicon/Addersting. I think the absolute bare minimum they should do right now(barring a rework) is either make Rhizomata grant one Sting, or double Toxicon II potency to 660 so that it's not a DPS loss to use.

Yeah, it'd be a little TOO similar to Lilies/Misery, and while I also hate homogenization, I feel like it's the least they can do right now for it.

[ty_taurus]

While I'm no fan of homogenization in general, and Twelve know healers are the ones that need it the least, I think it'd make sense if Toxicon becomes Sage's version of Misery - get adderstings as a reward for shielding, get 3 stacks and you get a big boom spell.

I don’t think that’s necessary. The biggest issue with making Toxikon DPS neutral given the current kit is how much unlimited free healing SGE gets. Instead, we should rethink how SGE regularly obtains Addersting and find ways to control that. Some ideas I had for example:

Replace Rhizomata with a GCD DPS action that deals as much damage as your current Dosis tier, and generates 1 Addersgall and 1 Addersting. This would have a 20 second cooldown with 2 charges. This also replaces normal Addersgall generation.

Instead of Addersgall generating over time, the gauge now increases each time you trigger a Kardion effect by 2 out of 100. While your gauge is 50 or greater, your next E. Diagnosis or E. Prognosis will grant 1 Addersting. This means you’d effectively get 1 free barrier heal in 62.5 seconds worth of DPS GCDs which feels like an appropriate “cooldown” for a DPS refunded barrier heal in my opinion.

If we also increase Toxikon’s potency to twice that of your current Dosis potency (or in my idea, keep it at identical potency but combo into an OGCD thats also the same potency and requires Toxikon be cast to use each time) then these changes would add a bit more engagement to SGE’s rotation. Manual control of Addersgall/Sting generation helps break up Dosis spam, combos into Toxikon, and now you have a more balanced way to throw out occasional barriers and further break pup Dosis spam.

I’d argue this still isn’t enough to fully satiate the SGE fantasy, but it would be step forward and actually make me want to go back to healing.

[Gemina]

I definitely like how WHM brings damage. I am also predicting they will get Misery II next expansion, which will incentivize lily usage even more. Along with that, I am hoping they update the lily gauge to allow the WHM to earn lilies, along with getting them passively. I think they could work it where if the WHM does not perform an action that earns them a lily within 30s, then they get one anyway. And if they do earn one, the 30s timer resets.

I believe every healer's gauge should award them via damage to the enemy like Misery. That being said, I have no idea why Macrocosmos is not tied to the AST seals. I need to play SGE more, but SCH is interesting in this regard. Their gauge needs to be looked at for sure because it is tied to a very niche ability; however, this niche ability has the potential to increase their DPS window. I understand that this is a very unfulfilling approach to contributing to dmg as a healer, but it is still very effective nonetheless. I also understand that interactive gauges like AST cards increase APM, and increasing/decreasing APM can really impact how a job plays and feels.

I need to play SGE more, but I honestly don't know what to give SCH. I know this echoes the devs and sounds crazy. Don't tar and feather me though, I just think it would feel weird at this point as SCH has more or less been the same since the beginning of ShB. I don't object to getting another dmg skill though. I just don't care to get back old skills like Bane and Miasma. I would rather get something new. Something very fitting for a SCH. Misery blooms into a flower and explodes. Macrocosmos rains comets. These are very fitting for WHM and AST respectively. I'm just not sure what. Something involving Lily. I know that.

[ty_taurus]

I imagine Misery will probably just receive potency updates once we get to Glare IV and beyond. If we do get an updated version it would just be for the animation, though I think Misery’s current animation is really nice. Really I think WHM needs to make its lily spells available much earlier and to expand on other lily healing tools. It’s GCD healing library really needs a revamp.

[Supersnow845]

I definitely like how WHM brings damage. I am also predicting they will get Misery II next expansion, which will incentivize lily usage even more. Along with that, I am hoping they update the lily gauge to allow the WHM to earn lilies, along with getting them passively. I think they could work it where if the WHM does not perform an action that earns them a lily within 30s, then they get one anyway. And if they do earn one, the 30s timer resets.

I believe every healer's gauge should award them via damage to the enemy like Misery. That being said, I have no idea why Macrocosmos is not tied to the AST seals. I need to play SGE more, but SCH is interesting in this regard. Their gauge needs to be looked at for sure because it is tied to a very niche ability; however, this niche ability has the potential to increase their DPS window. I understand that this is a very unfulfilling approach to contributing to dmg as a healer, but it is still very effective nonetheless. I also understand that interactive gauges like AST cards increase APM, and increasing/decreasing APM can really impact how a job plays and feels.

I need to play SGE more, but I honestly don't know what to give SCH. I know this echoes the devs and sounds crazy. Don't tar and feather me though, I just think it would feel weird at this point as SCH has more or less been the same since the beginning of ShB. I don't object to getting another dmg skill though. I just don't care to get back old skills like Bane and Miasma. I would rather get something new. Something very fitting for a SCH. Misery blooms into a flower and explodes. Macrocosmos rains comets. These are very fitting for WHM and AST respectively. I'm just not sure what. Something involving Lily. I know that.

I don’t know if I want to get into another lore argument but why don’t you want bane or miasma back for SCH, that is SCH’s lore, SCH isn’t a pretty job, it’s a tactician/field medic

This trend towards “fey mage” has no basis in SCH’s lore and makes it feel too much like a WHM

I would be happy just with shadowflare back for some interesting interaction with sacred soil

[Supersnow845]

I imagine Misery will probably just receive potency updates once we get to Glare IV and beyond. If we do get an updated version it would just be for the animation, though I think Misery’s current animation is really nice. Really I think WHM needs to make its lily spells available much earlier and to expand on other lily healing tools. It’s GCD healing library really needs a revamp.

Yeah misery is fine, WHM just needs more lily spells, revert dia to aero, glare to stone add two lily spells, one AOE small heal plus regen (for plenary) and one single target powerful regen, then add fluid aura back in as a oGCD damage spell and give assize 2 charges and WHM would be literally flawless, best design it has ever had

[Cheremia]

(I always feel like WHM needs a 60 sec or so partywide mitigation; make Asylum 60 sec and give it a damage reduction - blahblah stepping on Sacred Soil's toes, whatever, it would be true to the name Asylum and it needs SOMETHING for when Temperance is on CD)

Sacred Soil stepped on asylums toes first with getting a regen on it
It's too late for Asylum to step on Sacred's toes if Sacred is stomping all over it already

Glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't find Dots engaging. I Liked Aero 3s animation but that was it.
It was ALWAYS: Use Aero 3 then Aero 2, it was never an option to do anything else. It was just hit button 1, then your instant button 2, done. Repeat when Button 1 is about to fall off.
Sch's dot management was the same and that one short ranged 5 second one wasn't anything fun either, felt pointless to use on single bosses.
I did not feel anything by basically having 2 buttons that do the same thing that always get used at the same time, basically could have been 1 button from the start.

I liked Fluid aura when it did damage AND pushed. Pushing Caster mobs that don't run in felt SO good, i did it a lot until they took it from me (Like Paglth'an has a bunch of them, shoving them around would feel so good)

Give me something, anything to do in downtime, i already use benison and aquaveil in between because whm doesn't have much to weave with and if i feel like weaving, i do that.
Dunno what but buffing sounds more fun than using a dot because I personally don't see where they are engaging at all. I don't interact with them once they are on the target, so...