[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[kukurumei]

How about fun. Time is ticking.

[Haziel]

Sure it's not unique in the MMO world, but it still provided cross-job skills with balance.
Anyone else want the FFXI system back?

I want it. *_* Please *_*

[Reika]

I want it. *_* Please *_*

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...1-LOYALTY-MODE

This thread is for you. And everyone else that thinks FFXI was OOOH SOOO awesome.

[Demacia]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...1-LOYALTY-MODE

This thread is for you. And everyone else that thinks FFXI was OOOH SOOO awesome.

"Wahhh people want some features from the game that was actually successful"

"I want to be a special snowflake even though I'm going to equip second wind, siphon MP, cure, etc on every single job I play"

Shut up. An extremely over-exaggerated list of some of the flaws from XI? You wouldn't even have to lie to make an XIV version that topples it. Why do you guys defend some half-assed poorly thought out aspects of a bad game anyway?

[AtryxEtair]

To all the people saying "if you want restrictions, put them on yourself." Did the idea that the game can not/will not be balanced for that enter into the empty space where your brain should be? The game will be balanced for the most optimized character setups(the end result of the armory system).

So heres something to think about. People can have restrictions and still not have limits, and people can have limits without restrictions. These are different things. Restrictions protect you form yourself and others, and imitate reality. Limitation hinder your abilities to exist and enjoy things. Pick one and talk about it, but they are not one in the same.

[Ceons]

At least be creative and come up with some good ideas instead of 10 year old recycled stuff.

Yes it was great. No, do not want it anymore.

[Malakhim]

To all the people saying "if you want restrictions, put them on yourself." Did the idea that the game can not/will not be balanced for that enter into the empty space where your brain should be? The game will be balanced for the most optimized character setups(the end result of the armory system).

So heres something to think about. People can have restrictions and still not have limits, and people can have limits without restrictions. These are different things. Restrictions protect you form yourself and others, and imitate reality. Limitation hinder your abilities to exist and enjoy things. Pick one and talk about it, but they are not one in the same.

FFXI tried to do this with the subjob system, didn't work.

[Reika]

Like I always say, the door to FFXI is still open. No one is stopping you from playing it again if you love it so much....

[Kimahri]

To Lienn and Reika.

Isntead of asking for this game to become FFXI-2, why not going to FFXI forum and ask better graphics? Would be a much easier deal updating the models there than changing all FFXIV system to make a FFXI-2.

Oh. How funny. Here, let me throw another statement of mine I said up above that you've might've overlooked.

"If you took FFXI and reskinned it with different classes, storyline, abilities, some new battle mechanics, and I guess graphics, it would be considered a new game. Case in point? From FF12 to FF13!!"

Eh? What's that you say? Yeah. I thought so. You two are just the two typical people that don't read anything disregarding your opinions. Only to what you want to hear. Man, that sounds just like the selfish people I always knew you were to be. Haha! Now back to Arcell.

Actually I think Guild Marks traits should be usable by other classes. If they were restricted to one class then Marauder would be the "best" tank because it has Intimidate and people would probably start to shun other classes like Gladiator or Pugilist as tanks. Also people would likely consider Archer as the only viable DD class because it has Out of Sight and thus helps let the tank hold aggro a bit better. Cookie-cutter standards just like in XI.

This is one of the lamest excuses I've ever heard. There is a fine line that seperates class abilities from class traits. A classes traits should never be crossed over to another class. You keep talking about cookie-cutter, but you'd be a fool to say it's not anything like it. Aren't you basically cutting out certain things you want from classes to obtain your own? Cookie-cutter? Sounds like it. It goes both ways.

Your argument is nothing more than another excuse. They already had this problem in the previous game. What did they do to solve it? They adjusted the abilities when crossed over through sub job, and also traits and abilities from the job it came from. What's that? You want an example? Ok!

I. RNG/THF used to deal ungodly amounts of damage via Sneak Attack -> Weaponskill. (Patched. Ranger weaponskills could no longer stack onto sneak attack. Also is seriously penalized if used as a sub job.)

II. When the update for 1 STR = 1 ATK for Two-Handed weapon wielders. They changed it to .75 to avoid massive damage gap between one-handed to two-handed. (Patched.)

III. Hasso used from Samurai only had half the effect when used as a sub-job by any other two-handed weapons. (Implemented when Hasso & Seigan first came out for Samurai.)

IV. I'll let you come up with more if you feel inclined.

With that being said, there is nothing in your argument worth approval. What would need to be done is a revision of certain abilities that would make one class far superior in terms of tank, DD, healer, etc. SE has clearly shown it is far more capable of being able to remedy their mistakes than you would dare to say.

OH! I almost forgot! Your complaint over Marauder having Intimidation? Well I remember so well that Warrior of XI had an ability that Paladin did not..........Provoke! I'm going to let you marinate on that for a second. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

[Arcell]

This is one of the lamest excuses I've ever heard. There is a fine line that seperates class abilities from class traits. A classes traits should never be crossed over to another class. You keep talking about cookie-cutter, but you'd be a fool to say it's not anything like it. Aren't you basically cutting out certain things you want from classes to obtain your own? Cookie-cutter? Sounds like it. It goes both ways.

There you go making assumptions and putting words in my mouth again. I don't want to make my own "ultimate cookie-cutter class", in fact the way I play Pug is distinctly different from how other people even in my LS play it. Regardless, I don't want something like Intimidate to be Marauder specific, thus making it THAT much harder for Glad or Pug to tank. I think anyone who is tanking should have Intimidate and anyone who's not tanking should have Out of Sight. That's one of the things put into the game to help keep aggro shifted a certain way. If you made Intimidate specific to Marauder you'd have people saying that Glad and Pug aren't viable tanks because they can't keep hate as well. If you made Out of Sight specific to Archer you'd have people saying that Lancer, Pug and Marauder aren't viable DD classes because they've lost that key enmity mitigation trait.

I don't want to see job/subjob because it is too restrictive and creates too many cookie-cutter community standards where anything else is shunned. I didn't play XI to 75 in anything but I know other people can back me up there in that if you weren't cookie-cutter class X/Y you were shunned and couldn't get a group. Any originality was stripped from the game after a point. If you were something you HAD to sub a specific job or else you sucked, that's taking it too far.

Also you clearly have no understanding of the term "cookie-cutter" if you think that "cutting my own abilities out of other classes" defines it. It means that everyone is the same, you have standards that you cannot deviate from. So far in XIV there are few cookie-cutter standards. Want a tank? You've got Glad, Pug and Marauder. Want a DD class? You've got Lancer, Pug, Marauder and Archer. Even the mages can take over each other's roles with a degree of success though some are better than others.

And how about you stop attacking me? I have not once said a single insulting word towards you and it really doesn't help your argument. An argument based on attacking another and not the issue isn't really a sound argument now is it?