[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[Abraxai]

I think SE should branch Specialized classes from the current classes.. Gladiator to Paladin, or Warrior, or whatever, and make only certain abilities within its skillset to be equippable, and this would also limit the abilities equippable by other classes.

For example:

A Marauder could be specialized for being a Dark Knight, and this would make Bio, Poison, and low-tier Nukes equippable, but NOT Cure and Enhancement spells.

^
That's an example. I'm aware Marauder isn't DRK :P

[Zenaku]

I think SE should branch Specialized classes from the current classes.. Gladiator to Paladin, or Warrior, or whatever, and make only certain abilities within its skillset to be equippable, and this would also limit the abilities equippable by other classes.

For example:

A Marauder could be specialized for being a Dark Knight, and this would make Bio, Poison, and low-tier Nukes equippable, but NOT Cure and Enhancement spells.

^
That's an example. I'm aware Marauder isn't DRK :P

That what they going to do in the up coming patchs

it be two system

Rise your monk to 50 and unlock Monk by doing a quest

or

Rise your monk to a point and pick a tree pug can become "monk,???,???" but they say it be diff from wow.

i think i go with the first one it can add more quest and more storyline to the game.

[Arcell]

With the current system there is more of a grey area for good and bad builds. There is more freedom in what you do with your class. There will always be cookie-cutter builds but you can deviate from them and not completely suck with the current system.

Personally when I play Pugilist it is completely different from how I play Marauder, and that's different from how I play Gladiator. Then again I try to use most of a class's native skills as possible as those are meant for that class. Marauder has a lot of conal AoE attacks, Pugilist is more of a one-on-one fighter and Gladiator is decidedly a tank class not to mention the Sentinel abilities that make it unique in its own right.

There is freedom but I think the problem is that people currently have too much freedom. It is overwhelming and most aren't really sure what they should be doing. I can understand that but I'm still against a job/subjob system as I feel that's too restrictive. Make some more abilities class specific or add a slightly larger penalty for cross-class abilities.

[Dreamer]

It's kind of sad, really. We finally have an MMO that gives us some actual freedom in designing our character and people are so flabbergasted by the idea that they start yelling for restrictions.

[kukurumei]

It's kind of sad, really. We finally have an MMO that gives us some actual freedom in designing our character and people are so flabbergasted by the idea that they start yelling for restrictions.

Practicality > originality
reality > theory
Hindsight is supreme

Don't try to reinvent the wheel if you got no idea how to supersede it. People don't get an E for effort, and neither do designs or MMOs.

All this freedom did was be free to be let down.

And yes Conj can be thurm's and actually due to a certain skill, conj's is being taken over by thurm because you can be a conj with a slightly farther spell range.

There's no such thing as classes in FF14. It's a really thin line. Just like there's no such thing as a "build". That's a false representation.

If you fight a monster who's weak to fire, and uses paralyze on you. You instantly equip things to counter it. Whatever weakness you had, is gone, whatever strength you didn't have is given.

Resistance is futile.

Being flexible means exactly that, you have no restrictions. Whatever seemly restrictive SP limits only serve as an annoyance rather then a barrier.

Oh I lost, change skills. Freedom to woop ass

[Kimahri]

Practicality > originality
reality > theory
Hindsight is supreme

Don't try to reinvent the wheel if you got no idea how to supersede it. People don't get an E for effort, and neither do designs or MMOs.

All this freedom did was be free to be let down.

And yes Conj can be thurm's and actually due to a certain skill, conj's is being taken over by thurm because you can be a conj with a slightly farther spell range.

There's no such thing as classes in FF14. It's a really thin line. Just like there's no such thing as a "build". That's a false representation.

If you fight a monster who's weak to fire, and uses paralyze on you. You instantly equip things to counter it. Whatever weakness you had, is gone, whatever strength you didn't have is given.

Resistance is futile.

Being flexible means exactly that, you have no restrictions. Whatever seemly restrictive SP limits only serve as an annoyance rather then a barrier.

Oh I lost, change skills. Freedom to woop ass

Oh how I love you. You & I are one in the same. This current system is junk. Restrictions, please!

[Chione]

It's kind of sad, really. We finally have an MMO that gives us some actual freedom in designing our character and people are so flabbergasted by the idea that they start yelling for restrictions.

My thoughts exactly.

Oh how I love you. You & I are one in the same. This current system is junk. Restrictions, please!

See. ;3

If you want restrictions, have the discipline to apply them to yourself. There's no reason you can't do this. If you don't want to use the system, don't. Only use LNC abilities on your LNC if you prefer. But don't howl because others want to make a spear user that can also nuke or who use LNC ws on their GLA because the animation looks neat. You want handicaps and limitations, there is not a thing in the world stopping you from applying them to yourself in this game.

So I don't see where the argument is really. There will always be people insisting you must play a job this certain way. At least in XIV you can tell those types to shove it and still be able to get things done the way you want to. If you really want restrictions, find a group of people who think this way and hang out with them. They were really, really easy to find in FFXI...

Oh idly, I hear /dnc is the new /nin now in some circles over there, btw. I bet that stinks for the masses who leveled up ninja subjob just so they could get in parties. Now they're gonna have to level up another job just to be cool again. You really want that kinda bullshizzle to happen here? I think I'll pass.

[Arcell]

Practicality > originality
reality > theory
Hindsight is supreme

Don't try to reinvent the wheel if you got no idea how to supersede it. People don't get an E for effort, and neither do designs or MMOs.

All this freedom did was be free to be let down.

And yes Conj can be thurm's and actually due to a certain skill, conj's is being taken over by thurm because you can be a conj with a slightly farther spell range.

There's no such thing as classes in FF14. It's a really thin line. Just like there's no such thing as a "build". That's a false representation.

If you fight a monster who's weak to fire, and uses paralyze on you. You instantly equip things to counter it. Whatever weakness you had, is gone, whatever strength you didn't have is given.

Resistance is futile.

Being flexible means exactly that, you have no restrictions. Whatever seemly restrictive SP limits only serve as an annoyance rather then a barrier.

Oh I lost, change skills. Freedom to woop ass

While I disagree with a good deal of what you said, it holds very little bearing on the game as it's about to change in the direction of class uniqueness. I'm fine with some more restrictions, even if I think it's only because some players are too stupid to handle the freedom given to them. I simply don't want to see the job/subjob system again, I feel that's too restrictive.

[Rhomagus]

Fact: A Marauder shouldn't have MP to use for Cure, Protect, Shell, etc.

Fact: A Pugilist shouldn't be able to use weaponskill's from another class whose weaponskills base off being slashing or piercing when their weapons are blunt based.

Fact: The current system needs drastic changes to improve upon so a much more pleased crowd can be obtained. (I believe ~80% approved in the questionaire?)

False: This game is better than FFXI in terms of being unique to a certain degree.

You can not be unique if you have a hall pass to every ability with minimal consequences.

You realize that none of those points are facts, your false is not false, and not everyone has or will have access to all abilities.

Despite there being thousands of people with Maat's Cap out there, that is still a niche accomplishment. How long did it take those people to accomplish that? How long will it take people to accomplish getting all the jobs to the new level cap? What happens when another job is introduced? The only "fact" is that not everyone will have a "hall pass" to every ability out there.

You create a false comparison between XI and XIV when you're critical of XIV's community of expecting certain abilities to be equipped. You fail to see that XI's community did the same thing.

-Melee's with /NIN
-RDM being forced to heal and refresh
-LVL75XXX/LVL35XXX(or lower) shunned regardless of minute differences or viability.
-Sneak and Invis or else

XIV may develop it's social norms, in due time, but it's a moot point to say that XI is somehow superior for it's social norms because it puts more restrictions on you.

Also, please do not assert things as fact when they are not. It serves no purpose for anyone, and only hinders your proposal.

[Ceons]

Please stop trying to make this FFXI-2!

I love the way this game is. It needs improvements, it is not without it's flaws, but we do not need to go BACKWARDS to improve the game. 10 year old mechanics do not work. You don't make the game more fun by limiting, forcing or taking away freedom.

All FFXIV needs is more flashy effects and emote type animations (big variety of them) for skills to make them look cooler and be recognizable.

FFXIV Also needs challenging content and group gameplay, like missions and instances/dungeons, quests, monsters and whatever else you can beat with a group and feel good about.

The future of MMO is stepping away from the 'Holy-trinity' not going back to it.

Just saying from your title 'back' is wrong... Forward is the answer.