[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[Demacia]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...1-LOYALTY-MODE

This thread is for you. And everyone else that thinks FFXI was OOOH SOOO awesome.

"Wahhh people want some features from the game that was actually successful"

"I want to be a special snowflake even though I'm going to equip second wind, siphon MP, cure, etc on every single job I play"

Shut up. An extremely over-exaggerated list of some of the flaws from XI? You wouldn't even have to lie to make an XIV version that topples it. Why do you guys defend some half-assed poorly thought out aspects of a bad game anyway?

[AtryxEtair]

To all the people saying "if you want restrictions, put them on yourself." Did the idea that the game can not/will not be balanced for that enter into the empty space where your brain should be? The game will be balanced for the most optimized character setups(the end result of the armory system).

So heres something to think about. People can have restrictions and still not have limits, and people can have limits without restrictions. These are different things. Restrictions protect you form yourself and others, and imitate reality. Limitation hinder your abilities to exist and enjoy things. Pick one and talk about it, but they are not one in the same.

[Malakhim]

To all the people saying "if you want restrictions, put them on yourself." Did the idea that the game can not/will not be balanced for that enter into the empty space where your brain should be? The game will be balanced for the most optimized character setups(the end result of the armory system).

So heres something to think about. People can have restrictions and still not have limits, and people can have limits without restrictions. These are different things. Restrictions protect you form yourself and others, and imitate reality. Limitation hinder your abilities to exist and enjoy things. Pick one and talk about it, but they are not one in the same.

FFXI tried to do this with the subjob system, didn't work.

[Chione]

So basically the complaints seem to be;
Everyone is going to equip the same abilities on every job, every time.

And, the solution being argued for is;
We need to make sure that everyone can only equip the same abilities on the same job, every time.

You offer a solution that impacts everyone's ability to enjoy this game (don't forget DoL and DoH who also make use of this system), but the complaint is based on the faulty assumption that everyone plays the same way.

I have decided I don't want to level PUG and ARC on this character. I don't care if the current popular builds require abilities from either of those jobs. I don't want to level them. I might not be as awesome as the next guy, but I am playing the way I want and I'm having fun with it. It is indeed possible to put restrictions on yourself without hindering your ability to enjoy the game, but only if your enjoyment isn't tied up with being top rank on your server or being able to clobber stuff as fast as the next guy.

And if it is tied up in that stuff, then go look at the top ranked guy and level up everything the same way he has. Nothing stopping you from doing that either.

But instead it seems some of you care so much about how everyone else is playing that you'd insist on bringing back the pigeon-hole system FFXI has, where every job has to fit neatly in its slot to get anything done, and some jobs are left out entirely.

Where's the fun in that?

[Kimahri]

But instead it seems some of you care so much about how everyone else is playing that you'd insist on bringing back the pigeon-hole system FFXI has, where every job has to fit neatly in its slot to get anything done, and some jobs are left out entirely.

How about you name me one job that was completely left out? You've no idea what you're talking about. Every job in FFXI had a role to accomplish. That role made it an important part of the gameplay. Like I said; An army is made up of different categories of infantry with different roles to accomplish. They all don't do every role.

[Chione]

How about you name me one job that was completely left out? You've no idea what you're talking about. Every job in FFXI had a role to accomplish. That role made it an important part of the gameplay. Like I said; An army is made up of different categories of infantry with different roles to accomplish. They all don't do every role.

Gladly. Once the melee burn mentality began, black mages stopped being able to get into exp parties. Half their spells and abilities were wasted (elemental debuffs, magic bursting) and they had to more or less solo their way to the top because although no one wanted them for exp parties, they sure as heck wanted them for endgame.

There's one, but I'll give you another. In the same boat was the noble paladin. Once blink-tanking became the popular way to do exp parties, paladins started getting left out in the cold - but as soon as they got big enough for end game, people needed them again.

Not to mention how after the 2-handed patch, monks started being picked last to dragoon and samurai who became the new heavy hitting DDs. Warriors had to drop their one handed axes for two handers. Invites as a thief stopped coming around 40 or so - whenever it became too much of a bother to lineup for SA/TA. All because if you didn't have things just so or didn't do enough damage in a melee, you weren't going to get an invite to a exp party.

Anyone who mained any of these jobs (especially prior to the level sync addition) probably felt very left out.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I believe I every idea of what I'm talking about because I actually still play FFXI - I still deal with that system and all the restrictions you are in favor of. Granted, I play it nowhere near as much as XIV these days, but that's because I have more fun here.

Maybe you've forgotten how just about everyone had to have ninja leveled for sub job, especially for events; Even the white mages. Even the bards. Black mages needed it for solo up till 51. You say an army is made up of different roles. Different ways of doing things. And yet...

It seems to me the system in FFXIV would support your army argument far better than the system FFXI had. Everyone here can fill whatever role they want to build for themselves. If I enjoyed having that role decided for me by popular exp trends, as well as what skills to use on it, I'd be playing FFXI a lot more than I am right now.

[Malakhim]

So basically the complaints seem to be;
Everyone is going to equip the same abilities on every job, every time.

And, the solution being argued for is;
We need to make sure that everyone can only equip the same abilities on the same job, every time.

You offer a solution that impacts everyone's ability to enjoy this game (don't forget DoL and DoH who also make use of this system), but the complaint is based on the faulty assumption that everyone plays the same way.

I have decided I don't want to level PUG and ARC on this character. I don't care if the current popular builds require abilities from either of those jobs. I don't want to level them. I might not be as awesome as the next guy, but I am playing the way I want and I'm having fun with it. It is indeed possible to put restrictions on yourself without hindering your ability to enjoy the game, but only if your enjoyment isn't tied up with being top rank on your server or being able to clobber stuff as fast as the next guy.

And if it is tied up in that stuff, then go look at the top ranked guy and level up everything the same way he has. Nothing stopping you from doing that either.

But instead it seems some of you care so much about how everyone else is playing that you'd insist on bringing back the pigeon-hole system FFXI has, where every job has to fit neatly in its slot to get anything done, and some jobs are left out entirely.

Where's the fun in that?

It should be pretty obvious as evidenced by the pro-subjob section that you're not allowed to enjoy things ever.

[Ceons]

At least be creative and come up with some good ideas instead of 10 year old recycled stuff.

Yes it was great. No, do not want it anymore.

[Reika]

Like I always say, the door to FFXI is still open. No one is stopping you from playing it again if you love it so much....

[Reika]

So i will just reiterate that the current system is good-to-go