[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[Issachar]

Hell, bring back the stuff that made FFXI good. Most of the haters probably found it too hard FFXI was pretty much a masterpiece as far as MMOs go, and had alot of great ideas that many other games have borrowed. Minus the cats anyways.

Being able to equip pretty much any ability on any job, though convenient, is lazy and easy mode. There is no job uniqueness at all. A PGL can tank almost as good as a GLA if they try. Same with LNC. If you want to call me out on it, be my guest. But across two characters, I've done it on all three equally, including NMs.

The fact of the matter is everyone is getting their panties in a bunch in this thread because a couple of furballs are trying to be self-important. You know who you are. And purple text is tacky

The devs would sooner listen to and consider calm, civil, mature discussion and suggestions instead of this more-or-less tantrum thread. Ya'll need to chill out. Please. the EN forums are the most disruptive and combative on the site and it's embarassing.

[Celtodeno]

The problem with "job/sub job" is that it ends up just equaling "job" as there will only be certain acceptable sub jobs. If i wanted to play ff11 I would.

[Issachar]

The problem with "job/sub job" is that it ends up just equaling "job" as there will only be certain acceptable sub jobs. If i wanted to play ff11 I would.

The mistake with the system in FFXI is that the jobs weren't fleshed out enough to make proper/useful combinations, which led people to using the most exploitable job/subjob setup with little to no room for change. Like BLU. You pretty much had /NIN and /THF. Anything else would get you mocked or killed.

I think the system could be great with a little more forethought than the seemingly rushed FFXI batch.

[Arcell]

As I've said many, many times: FFXIV has potential for a system much greater than both our current system and the job/subjob system. Honestly I'd rather see them innovate and move forward instead of copping out and just going back to something because it's easier to do that.

I think we could do with some more restrictions but job/subjob is too restrictive, especially when you factor in the community required /subjobs.

And honestly, Lancer can in no way be as good a tank as Gladiator seeing as they'd have to borrow all of their abilities. Lancer has NO native tank abilities so all the ones they borrow would have increased cooldowns and lower efficiency. Not to mention that Lancer actually has some native skills that mitigate enmity generated. Pug is alright as a tank but only has 3 native tank abilities.

[Reika]

the way i see it:

Gld - 90% tank (Heavy Armor, Shield, Area threat skill, Most of the defensive skills availiable both from main class and shield offhand, Lots of HP)
Mrd - 70% tank (Heavy armor, front-cone basic attacks/threat skills, Intimidate, Still lots of HP)
Pug - 50% tank (Higher evasiveness, still lots of HP)
Lnc - 30% tank (only because they can wear defensive armor and can parry)
Arc - 10% tank (lighter armors, weapon cant parry, but also the highest damage of the DoW classes)

Lnc can only tank if it steals skills from the top 2 and has their R36 affinity skill, without doing that, it is DPS.

Gld + Mrd skills or Mrd + Gld skills = perfect tanks.

[Arcell]

And not even all the skills. The most both definitely need are the provokes (Provoke, Taunt, Disorient and Accomplice) and Intimidate as a trait. Other than that they're mostly free to use their own class skills for the most part. Both Gladiator and Marauder have a decent number of native enmity generating abilities.

Honestly I'd say:

Marauder = Multi-target tank
Gladiator = Single target tank

[Issachar]

the way i see it:

Gld - 90% tank (Heavy Armor, Shield, Area threat skill, Most of the defensive skills availiable both from main class and shield offhand, Lots of HP)
Mrd - 70% tank (Heavy armor, front-cone basic attacks/threat skills, Intimidate, Still lots of HP)
Pug - 50% tank (Higher evasiveness, still lots of HP)
Lnc - 30% tank (only because they can wear defensive armor and can parry)
Arc - 10% tank (lighter armors, weapon cant parry, but also the highest damage of the DoW classes)

Lnc can only tank if it steals skills from the top 2 and has their R36 affinity skill, without doing that, it is DPS.

Gld + Mrd skills or Mrd + Gld skills = perfect tanks.

Likewise, GLA has to mooch skills from other jobs to be more than average. Doesn't matter which way you wear a shoe. It's still a shoe. And those percentages are way off the mark.

[Reika]

It doesn't have too mooch as much as the other classes have to mooch. You can live on without skills from pug for tanking, but Mrd and Gla both get a lot of tanking skills, Gla however is more up there because it can use War drum and warmonger. Mrd can only use warmonger. The fact that Gla can make use of shield defense skill and threat skills (Outmanuver, Aegis Boon, Deflection, War Drum) is what makes it both capable of grabbing multiple targets and reducing damage from mutiple targets. Sure Mrd can full swing stuff and gain additional threat while steadfast is active, but they have to have good positioning as welll to hit everything too.

[Kimahri]

If the current system is fine, and nothing needs to change... why is the game failing?

I ask this alot and these crazy "xiv shouldnt change a thing" ppl cant seem to give a good answer, orrrrr denial "Its not failing", lmao or psh "anyone that doesnt like it is stupid and doesnt like inovation." all kinds of bs.

If the game is fine as it is why did they need to change delevopement teams producers ect?
why did they make it f2p, game price drop ect ect... please dont say just because of early release and lack of content thats not all, The fundamental game play elements where not accepted by most final fantasy fans, in other words its not a fun game and the class uniqueness is one of the main issues and that is the armory system, no?

Go ahead and say its just me that feels this way, yet more denial, thats never a bad thing.
Also i am a former XI player and i agree with kazamir the only reason I play is because i think SE knows this game is made of Fail as is and if they are smart will change to please the fans which i think they will!
but meh maybe its only me that feels this way right?

Couldn't agree more. People say that every Final Fantasy game is different from others, and they're correct. What they're wrong is that it's completely different. Being SE's second MMO it would've been downright stupid to NOT implement successful systems from the first into the new game and further refined it. This game is horrible. It's the first Final Fantasy I've decided to put the controller down and play something else.........And I've played Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles on the GameCube! Yuk! Truth is I'd gladly step back into the FFXI world because it's more pleasing even after the fact of it being nearly ten years old. Just like I'd much rather play FF7 because FF12 was less enjoyable than my original expectations.

In lack of a better word, this game is shameful of the SE name. A lack of honor. Samurai used to commit suicide over a lack of honor. I'd gladly come back when things are greener on the other side of the hill. As for now though? Haha! I'd much rather be playing Crash Bandicoot (A.K.A Sonic's Ass) than this cheap joke. And, yes. This text is in blue. I just thought I'd make a mockery of Dreamer with her purple text. Psst! It doesn't make you anymore special.

The fact of the matter is everyone is getting their panties in a bunch in this thread because a couple of furballs are trying to be self-important. You know who you are. And purple text is tacky.

Thank you, Issachar.

[Reika]

It doesn't have too mooch as much as the other classes have to mooch. You can live on without skills from pug for tanking, but Mrd and Gla both get a lot of tanking skills, Gla however is more up there because it can use War drum and warmonger. Mrd can only use warmonger. The fact that Gla can make use of shield defense skill and threat skills (Outmanuver, Aegis Boon, Deflection, War Drum) is what makes it both capable of grabbing multiple targets and reducing damage from mutiple targets. Sure Mrd can full swing stuff and gain additional threat while steadfast is active, but they have to have good positioning as welll to hit everything too.

I correct myself, Accomplice is always good to have.