SAM is dead

[RyuuZero]

I do think we have a few too many buttons now, but this could be resolved by folding some buttons into others, and combining the effects of abilities like Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II.

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you basicly are suggesting to turn Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II into Geirskogul and Nastrond, that would only make things worse. The Beauty of the Samurai that yet remains is that we have Options for both Situations to think about. My Suspicion is that they removed Kaiten in Order to make Space for a New Skill in 7.0, which will be a Single Target Ogi! The Thing that the Devs didn't thought of is what damage they do to Samurai by removing Kaiten, because as we all are aware of, from a Gameplay Perspective The Shinten Spam, doesn't Cut it! If they had someone in the devteam, who actually played Samurai, they would roll Tsubamegaeshi up into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now. I mean Tsubamegaeshi in my Opinion is just a waste of a Button anyway, since it doesn't contribute Meditation Stacks anymore, like it did since 5.2! Though Third Eye triggering Seigan would be dopeAF indeed I personally do not mind the Third Eye change so much since it still rewarded the Player with Kenki and the Massive Backlash really started around 6.1's Kaiten Removal, where I want to stop and stress everyone wants Kaiten back to focus to get Kaiten back because it's face the truth, we all were happy in 6.08

though.. I really wonder if there is some Game Dev out there noticing our concerns.. I mean a tabtarget-RPG with the 6.08 Samurai Playstyle would satisfy a good chunk of our needs, i'd imagine.

[Flashy]

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you basicly are suggesting to turn Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II into Geirskogul and Nastrond, that would only make things worse. The Beauty of the Samurai that yet remains is that we have Options for both Situations to think about. My Suspicion is that they removed Kaiten in Order to make Space for a New Skill in 7.0, which will be a Single Target Ogi! The Thing that the Devs didn't thought of is what damage they do to Samurai by removing Kaiten, because as we all are aware of, from a Gameplay Perspective The Shinten Spam, doesn't Cut it! If they had someone in the devteam, who actually played Samurai, they would roll Tsubamegaeshi up into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now. I mean Tsubamegaeshi in my Opinion is just a waste of a Button anyway, since it doesn't contribute Meditation Stacks anymore, like it did since 5.2! Though Third Eye triggering Seigan would be dopeAF indeed I personally do not mind the Third Eye change so much since it still rewarded the Player with Kenki and the Massive Backlash really started around 6.1's Kaiten Removal, where I want to stop and stress everyone wants Kaiten back to focus to get Kaiten back because it's face the truth, we all were happy in 6.08

though.. I really wonder if there is some Game Dev out there noticing our concerns.. I mean a tabtarget-RPG with the 6.08 Samurai Playstyle would satisfy a good chunk of our needs, i'd imagine.

I disagree, because if we have to lose something due to button bloat, I'd rather combine Shoha I and II (Shoha II animation is lazy shit anyway) and Senei and Guren over losing Kaiten any day

[Deithwen]

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you basicly are suggesting to turn Guren/Senei and Shoha/Shoha II into Geirskogul and Nastrond, that would only make things worse. The Beauty of the Samurai that yet remains is that we have Options for both Situations to think about. My Suspicion is that they removed Kaiten in Order to make Space for a New Skill in 7.0, which will be a Single Target Ogi! The Thing that the Devs didn't thought of is what damage they do to Samurai by removing Kaiten, because as we all are aware of, from a Gameplay Perspective The Shinten Spam, doesn't Cut it! If they had someone in the devteam, who actually played Samurai, they would roll Tsubamegaeshi up into Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri works right now. I mean Tsubamegaeshi in my Opinion is just a waste of a Button anyway, since it doesn't contribute Meditation Stacks anymore, like it did since 5.2! Though Third Eye triggering Seigan would be dopeAF indeed I personally do not mind the Third Eye change so much since it still rewarded the Player with Kenki and the Massive Backlash really started around 6.1's Kaiten Removal, where I want to stop and stress everyone wants Kaiten back to focus to get Kaiten back because it's face the truth, we all were happy in 6.08

though.. I really wonder if there is some Game Dev out there noticing our concerns.. I mean a tabtarget-RPG with the 6.08 Samurai Playstyle would satisfy a good chunk of our needs, i'd imagine.

Back in SB we only had Gurren and it worked well, so I wouldn't really mind. I'd miss the cool Senei animation though, but it would be much better than what we have now.

[RyuuZero]

I disagree, because if we have to lose something due to button bloat, I'd rather combine Shoha I and II (Shoha II animation is lazy shit anyway) and Senei and Guren over losing Kaiten any day

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay? seriously the merging of Shoha/Shoha II & Senei/Guren would turn those skills into Geirskogul/Nastrond but Circle AoE and I do not need that but Hey! if you hate half of Shoha so much why don't we get rid of Meditation altogether? that would delete 2 skills instead of one, wouldn't that be great?

Back in SB we only had Gurren and it worked well, so I wouldn't really mind. I'd miss the cool Senei animation though, but it would be much better than what we have now.

well SB introduced Guren as 2minute Line AoE Buster, just how ShB introduced Shoha as 3 Iaijutsu Bonus Attack, just how EW introduced Ogi Namikiri as an Ikishoten-Triggered Cone AoE Buster. Do you see the Pattern?
I will be more clear with it:
lvl70, Guren, AoE
lvl72, Senei, Single Target
lvl80 Shoha, Single Target
lvl82 Shoha II, AoE
lvl90 Ogi Namikiri, AoE
lvl92 Ogi Whatever, Single Target

My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat.
The Job is out since 2017 How am I the only One who sees this is beyond me.

[Deithwen]

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay? seriously the merging of Shoha/Shoha II & Senei/Guren would turn those skills into Geirskogul/Nastrond but Circle AoE and I do not need that but Hey! if you hate half of Shoha so much why don't we get rid of Meditation altogether? that would delete 2 skills instead of one, wouldn't that be great?



well SB introduced Guren as 2minute Line AoE Buster, just how ShB introduced Shoha as 3 Iaijutsu Bonus Attack, just how EW introduced Ogi Namikiri as an Ikishoten-Triggered Cone AoE Buster. Do you see the Pattern?
I will be more clear with it:
lvl70, Guren, AoE
lvl72, Senei, Single Target
lvl80 Shoha, Single Target
lvl82 Shoha II, AoE
lvl90 Ogi Namikiri, AoE
lvl92 Ogi Whatever, Single Target

My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat.
The Job is out since 2017 How am I the only One who sees this is beyond me.

You are seeing a pattern, good for you, what I'm saying is that your argument that Sam is becoming like Dragoon is false, because at first we only had Gurren anyway. Unless you are wanting to admit to say that Samurai in 4.0 was like Dragoon ?
That would be a bold stance to hold.
Senei was already button bloat at the time, since it was exactly like Gurren but Single target, and gurren got nerfed.
Shoha is what it is, a filler. Shoha 2 is a useless variant.

"My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat."

It's absolutely false. Existing skills got changed and nerfed to create new versions of them. Samurai changed to be like it is now, and as such reverting it back won't harm the job too badly.

[RyuuZero]

You are seeing a pattern, good for you, what I'm saying is that your argument that Sam is becoming like Dragoon is false, because at first we only had Gurren anyway. Unless you are wanting to admit to say that Samurai in 4.0 was like Dragoon ?
That would be a bold stance to hold.
Senei was already button bloat at the time, since it was exactly like Gurren but Single target, and gurren got nerfed.
Shoha is what it is, a filler. Shoha 2 is a useless variant.

"My Point is that every new Resource gave the Samurai a New Skill that got Expanded upon a New Expansion to accommondate the other Situation in combat."

It's absolutely false. Existing skills got changed and nerfed to create new versions of them. Samurai changed to be like it is now, and as such reverting it back won't harm the job too badly.

okay.. let's take a Look at Guren:
Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 500 for the first enemy, and 25% less for all remaining enemies.

okay, let's look at Geirskogul:
Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 260 for the first enemy, and 30% less for all remaining enemies.

to be fair the potencies, fall off and cool down varies. but outside of that it's the same skill! The Catch is that Guren shares the cool down with Senei as Single Target alternative, a thing that the Dragoon doesn't have! You really want to take this Uniqueness Away from Samurai? to be honest, it's the thing with Shoha. Shoha II is your AoE Option to utilize in AoE Situations.. or are you one of those Players who Single Target Combo in Trash mobs?

[Deithwen]

okay.. let's take a Look at Guren:
Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 500 for the first enemy, and 25% less for all remaining enemies.

okay, let's look at Geirskogul:
Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 260 for the first enemy, and 30% less for all remaining enemies.

to be fair the potencies, fall off and cool down varies. but outside of that it's the same skill! The Catch is that Guren shares the cool down with Senei as Single Target alternative, a thing that the Dragoon doesn't have! You really want to take this Uniqueness Away from Samurai? to be honest, it's the thing with Shoha. Shoha II is your AoE Option to utilize in AoE Situations.. or are you one of those Players who Single Target Combo in Trash mobs?

Can you at least make the slightest effort to actually reply to my points?
Gurren was the big Kenki spender in SB, it serverd the same purpose as Senei. It's absolutely the same, except we now have two buttons and a nerfed Gurren.
Gurren is not Geirskogul. The latter is almost always used on CD and serves a very different purpose : entering life of the dragon. Before that it was a spender that would reduce your Blood of the Dragon timer.

They could simply revert Gurren to its original state, that would not make Sam a dragoon.

Your only argument is that "it's an attack in a line", which is extremely weak.

And all this non sense to say what ? "Noo I don't like your proposed Sam changes to address the buitton bloat". Change your tune a bit, it's completely off.

[RyuuZero]

Can you at least make the slightest effort to actually reply to my points?
Gurren was the big Kenki spender in SB, it serverd the same purpose as Senei. It's absolutely the same, except we now have two buttons and a nerfed Gurren.
Gurren is not Geirskogul. The latter is almost always used on CD and serves a very different purpose : entering life of the dragon. Before that it was wa spender that would reduce your Blood of the Dragon timer.

They could simply revert Gurren to its original state, that would not make Sam a dragoon.

Your only argument is that "it's an attack in a line", which is extremely weak.

And all this non sense to say what ? "Noo I don't like your proposed Sam changes to address the buitton bloat". Change your tune a bit, it's completely off.

Is it though? the Kenki Spender Arguement while true can be disregarded through Ikishoten.. in my opinion, since Ikishoten and Guren share the 2minute cool down
practically you have no Kenki, you press Ikishoten and follow up with Guren (or Senei, in single Target Situations)

the "Devlievers an attack.."-Texts aren't an arguement, they are copied texts from the Job Guide ^^

you guys are just flailing around without having a firm understanding of what your suggested change have for consequences to the Feel of the Job, You loved Samurai before 6.1, right? So do I, but again Kaiten wasn't the only thing that gave the Samurai it's Identity. Your Suggestions of merging skills other is in my opinion concerning, since I look at other Jobs (mainly Dragoon) and see what you're suggesting.. of course I ask "So you want it to be like Dragoon?", and as a Samurai Player of course I oppose this stance.

[Kabooa]

You really want to turn the Samurai into a Dragoon Circle Jerk in order to get Kaiten back, instead of looking at the entire History of the Samurai Gameplay?.

Hey.

Only I get to snidely say how old I am to other players.