New Unreal is a an all around miserable experience.

[Issaella]

Now I’m not against the idea that there is a massive gulf of content between normal raids and extreme/unreal but this is exactly where this content should be balanced to, complaining sephirot is too hard is not the way to go, instead complain there is nothing in that content gap except maybe BA

Both are valid complaints IMO. I have made the argument about difficulty scaling numerous times. But this specifically, when the previous Unreal was doable with what I would consider a reasonable amount of effort for an average player (remember only 5% of the population clears the 4th Sav of any given tier), then the new one spiked the difficulty by from low-end Ex to mid current tier Sav raid. I think that's a bit much. It alienates a lot of people (myself included) who were doing the previous one and don't see a path forward that doesn't include numerous hours of wiping to clear, and numerous more on failed weekly reclears. They could have spiked it 20, 30, even 50% in difficulty and I wouldn't be upset, because UW was pretty easy even in the beginning. But this just feels like a massive gulf and the end point is miles way.

As a side note, I don't remember any of the higher skilled people screaming to buff UW and the low/avg skilled people shouting them down. It seems like only when something is on the upper end of difficulty and people are asking for there to at least be some sort of difficulty progression that it's a step to far and they are ruining the game. What else do I have to do? The new Ex weapons are ugly imo so I have no reason to do them. I one-shotted the new normals day 1 and got my tokens. After last tier I don't have the motivation to wade into the PF cesspit for Sav again. So that leave what? Hello Kitty Island Adv. and dozing off through Expert roulette for the next 4 months? If Unreal were a mid-level difficulty like it was last patch, at least it would feel like working up into harder content. At present it just feels like wading back into PF Sav, which I hated every minute of even on a 1-shot week. It requires a level of mental engagement that borders on exhausting.

[Supersnow845]

Jobs were only complex in heavensward, when they overtuned everything. Like, literally everything.

2.0 things were a lot less complex.

The 2.0 jobs were still far more complex than they are now as were the 4.0 jobs

Sure Midas Gordias and thordran EX were overturned tiers but the jobs still required far more to get the most out of them back then, and the mechanics were also harder

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The 2.0 jobs were still far more complex than they are now as were the 4.0 jobs

Sure Midas Gordias and thordran EX were overturned tiers but the jobs still required far more to get the most out of them back then, and the mechanics were also harder

No, no they were not. 2.0 jobs were incredibly basic. Especially tanks and melee dps.

Only healers had some nuance, because of cleric stance, which everyone I knew at the time hated the delay of.

I liked 2.0 jobs because they were simpler. I could tank a fight and call out mechanics without worrying about messing up my rotation. I miss those days

[Supersnow845]

Both are valid complaints IMO. I have made the argument about difficulty scaling numerous times. But this specifically, when the previous Unreal was doable with what I would consider a reasonable amount of effort for an average player (remember only 5% of the population clears the 4th Sav of any given tier), then the new one spiked the difficulty by from low-end Ex to mid current tier Sav raid. I think that's a bit much. It alienates a lot of people (myself included) who were doing the previous one and don't see a path forward that doesn't include numerous hours of wiping to clear, and numerous more on failed weekly reclears. They could have spiked it 20, 30, even 50% in difficulty and I wouldn't be upset, because UW was pretty easy even in the beginning. But this just feels like a massive gulf and the end point is miles way.

As a side note, I don't remember any of the higher skilled people screaming to buff UW and the low/avg skilled people shouting them down. It seems like only when something is on the upper end of difficulty and people are asking for there to at least be some sort of difficulty progression that it's a step to far and they are ruining the game. What else do I have to do? The new Ex weapons are ugly imo so I have no reason to do them. I one-shotted the new normals day 1 and got my tokens. After last tier I don't have the motivation to wade into the PF cesspit for Sav again. So that leave what? Hello Kitty Island Adv. and dozing off through Expert roulette for the next 4 months? If Unreal were a mid-level difficulty like it was last patch, at least it would feel like working up into harder content. At present it just feels like wading back into PF Sav, which I hated every minute of even on a 1-shot week. It requires a level of mental engagement that borders on exhausting.

Yes there is a legit content gap there as I said but you are judging unreal on the ultima weapon which is famously barley even an EX fight, it was even a joke at initial launch

Unreal is not the content gap filler you are making it out to be because unreal is just ex, there is no EX’s in the past even close to how easy ultima weapon is (zurvan if you could skip soar otherwise maybe Garuda would be the next easiest pre SB EX)

I’m totally with you this patch is basically just island sanctuary if you don’t like savage till criterion launches but yeah unreal is not ultima difficulty it will always be old EX difficulty which is roughly equivalent to turn 1 current savage

[Supersnow845]

No, no they were not. 2.0 jobs were incredibly basic. Especially tanks and melee dps.

Only healers had some nuance, because of cleric stance, which everyone I knew at the time hated the delay of.

I liked 2.0 jobs because they were simpler. I could tank a fight and call out mechanics without worrying about messing up my rotation. I miss those days

To be fair I didn’t play tanks back then so you are probably right, my experience is mostly in healing and healers were definitely at their most complex in 2.0 and 3.0, though I at least remember the casters were quite complex back then, maybe not like 6.0 BLM but better than SMN and more than RDM

[Issaella]

I guess I don't understand what the purpose of Unreal is then. I thought it was supposed to be something near or even below whatever the current Ex was since it was basically just a fun way to get cosmetic items. I didn't think it was supposed to be anything close to current tier Sav. Why even bother to include avg skilled players at all with the UW? When you are just going to turn around and make make the next one either undoable or so frustrating as the rewards don't justify the time investment? It just turns into another way for the higher skilled players to make easy money by buying Leaf items and then selling them for huge amounts of gil on the marketboard. I might as well just got farm maps for 20 hours until I have enough to buy them. I can deal with grind when I want something cosmetic stuff, but not hours upon hours of wiping and frustrating just for stupid flying squirrel or a mount.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I guess I don't understand what the purpose of Unreal is then. I thought it was supposed to be something near or even below whatever the current Ex was since it was basically just a fun way to get cosmetic items. I didn't think it was supposed to be anything close to current tier Sav. Why even bother to include avg skilled players at all with the UW? When you are just going to turn around and make make the next one either undoable or so frustrating as the rewards don't justify the time investment? It just turns into another way for the higher skilled players to make easy money by buying Leave items and then selling them for huge amounts of gil on the marketboard. I might as well just got farm maps for 20 hours until I have enough to buy them. I can deal with grind when I want something cosmetic stuff, but not hours upon hours of wiping and frustrating just for stupid flying squirrel or a mount.

The purpose was to recreate the fights at their original difficulty for max level players.

That's it.

[Supersnow845]

I guess I don't understand what the purpose of Unreal is then. I thought it was supposed to be something near or even below whatever the current Ex was since it was basically just a fun way to get cosmetic items. I didn't think it was supposed to be anything close to current tier Sav. Why even bother to include avg skilled players at all with the UW? When you are just going to turn around and make make the next one either undoable or so frustrating as the rewards don't justify the time investment? It just turns into another way for the higher skilled players to make easy money by buying Leaf items and then selling them for huge amounts of gil on the marketboard. I might as well just got farm maps for 20 hours until I have enough to buy them. I can deal with grind when I want something cosmetic stuff, but not hours upon hours of wiping and frustrating just for stupid flying squirrel or a mount.

Like Valkyrie said it’s literally to recreate old EX’s at max level, and none of us wanted the ultima weapon either, we wanted something like thordran, Sophia or sephirot last time

This game is already so light on high end content unreal is just something for us to play around in, whether it serves as a good stepping stone into current high end raiding is totally based on what current unreal is running right now

[Equitable_Remedy]

but this is straight up awful and i hate it.

Then don't do it.

This is a videogame—do the things that are fun for you and don't do the things that aren't fun for you.

[Bunnycake]

Unreal > Extreme isn't it? Try the extreme min ilvl or at least synced to learn mech and unreal will be a easier. Unreal is just extreme with bigger damage sponge...

Yes, it's just the bosses got upped to the current cap level. Same mechanics and all from the 3.x era.