Shield/Pure Healer Split Feedback

[Deceptus]

WHM has no Succor equivalent to soften the blow.

Out of your whole post I take issue with this.

WHM does have a succor equivalent, it's called Medica II, and that medica 2 heals for far more than succor does (520p vs 1000p).

You have to look at shield healers based on their shields and regen healers based on their regens.

[Mimilu]

Out of your whole post I take issue with this.

WHM does have a succor equivalent, it's called Medica II, and that medica 2 heals for far more than succor does (520p vs 1000p).

You have to look at shield healers based on their shields and regen healers based on their regens.

But shields also absorb damage, which can prevent a partymember from being KO'ed.
Medica II can't heal those who are KO'ed. (❁°͈▵°͈)

[vetch]

Ironically I think it's actually you who doesn't understand what optimal and suboptimal means. It's not the people who shaped the game into what it is right now, the reason people don't want to spend GCDs on healing and why it is optimal is because there's no need to. In fact outside of ultimate, there would be no reason to cast any healing GCDs. You're never in this scenario you mentioned at the end if everyone was playing optimally. Using a GCD heal to rectify a mistake will never be seen as optimal play.

You're conflating optimal group play with optimal individual play. Optimal group play is never needing to GCD heal in any content after ARR because everyone's on top of their game. Optimal individual play, on the part of a healer, can mean GCD healing to rectify the mistakes of another individual not playing optimally, to prevent the greater DPS loss that would come of letting them die.

[Payadopa]

Well AST has shields

Fair. Yet the other two have regens.

[Deceptus]

But shields also absorb damage, which can prevent a partymember from being KO'ed.
Medica II can't heal those who are KO'ed. (❁°͈▵°͈)

Said this a few pages back:

AoE shield is less than 10% of your hp bar at most gear levels, even less than that for a tank. If that is the difference between life and death in your group, they need to learn what reprisal / feint-addle / troubadour / sacred soil (etc) are.

If you're a SCH and you need an aoe shield, you're going to deploy a Critlo or at a base level, an Adlo or just not shield and fey blessing / Indom the damage.

[Supersnow845]

Out of your whole post I take issue with this.

WHM does have a succor equivalent, it's called Medica II, and that medica 2 heals for far more than succor does (520p vs 1000p).

You have to look at shield healers based on their shields and regen healers based on their regens.

But that just circles back to the points of

A) regens are pretty worthless compared to mitigation (not necessarily shields but mitigation or shields)
B) shield healers have plenty strong regens themselves that don’t require GCD use

Looking at regen healers for their regens is pretty pointless because high end content doesn’t like regens and powerful overheal, it likes mitigation

[Renathras]

Ironically I think it's actually you who doesn't understand what optimal and suboptimal means.

While I agree partly with some of your points in some ways, I fully DO understand what optimal and suboptimal mean. If you using a GCD heal means TWO (or more) GCDs are freed between you and your cohealer for damage, then that's a net gain. You note that any party member taking avoidable damage is subobtimal, but as a healer, you can't control THAT. All you can control is the recovery from it. And people were giving actual examples from Ultimate where it is, in fact, optimal.

It won't always be optimal, but there are times it will be, so it's hardly "worthless". And in the times it's NOT optimal, it won't matter, since no fight will be decided by one 295 potency cast being missed.

Out of your whole post I take issue with this.

Note the quote from me you posted there:

WHM has no Succor equivalent to soften the blow.

Medica 2 can heal more than Succor (which is arguably more akin to Medica 1), but it can't reduce the amount of a party member's health bar that goes down. Succor can, albeit slightly. WHM's only way to reduce incoming damage taken is Temperance, which is on a 2 min CD.

Keep in mind in the post I was kind of speaking to playing WHM vs the other healers when a 4 man (or any) boss does a raidwide (it's just more noticeable in 4 mans because you don't have that second healer to lean on so you see what your Job's limitations are more clearly), WHM doesn't EVEN HAVE something like Succor. It's Temperance and then nothing for 2 mins until it comes off CD. Yes yes, you don't NEED mitigation (generally) in 4 mans, but the point is I'm used to rolling through them on the other healers (muscle memory can be a good thing), and it's glaringly obvious WHM is missing out there. Louisouix and Y'Shtola (end of ARR) both had a bubble and were CNJ/WHMs.

You're conflating optimal group play with optimal individual play. Optimal group play is never needing to GCD heal in any content after ARR because everyone's on top of their game. Optimal individual play, on the part of a healer, can mean GCD healing to rectify the mistakes of another individual not playing optimally, to prevent the greater DPS loss that would come of letting them die.

This.

[Kabzy]

You're conflating optimal group play with optimal individual play. Optimal group play is never needing to GCD heal in any content after ARR because everyone's on top of their game. Optimal individual play, on the part of a healer, can mean GCD healing to rectify the mistakes of another individual not playing optimally, to prevent the greater DPS loss that would come of letting them die.

You're not wrong in that those are indeed two separate things, but I don't think anyone really theorycrafts based on individual play so it seems like a moot point to me. I can once again go back to my point on WHM and AST. If we're talking optimal individual play, WHM knocks AST out of the park, but we all know that isn't the case because there's an entire 7 other people to consider.

[Supersnow845]

You're not wrong in that those are indeed two separate things, but I don't think anyone really theorycrafts based on individual play so it seems like a moot point to me. I can once again go back to my point on WHM and AST. If we're talking optimal individual play, WHM knocks AST out of the park, but we all know that isn't the case because there's an entire 7 other people to consider.

Optimal Individual play vs optimal group play is a very different thing than pDPS vs rDPS

[Kabzy]

Optimal Individual play vs optimal group play is a very different thing than pDPS vs rDPS

But optimal individual play is based entirely on optimal group play. Not a single DPS rotation out there is based solely on the job itself, it's amalgamated with the utilities the party brings. Hence why you have to look at the bigger picture.