Shield/Pure Healer Split Feedback

[Supersnow845]

Honestly, I think it's dumb and arbitrary. Regen healers have shields, shield healers have regens. It's pointless. I don't think anything of value was gained that way.

Well AST has shields

Basically it just artificially restricted half the healers from one half of a healers kit while giving the other half everything they wanted

[Payadopa]

Well AST has shields

Fair. Yet the other two have regens.

[Rilifane]

You managed to completely miss the point.
Or maybe it was deliberate because of our past interactions, who knows. After all, you felt the need to explain something as if arguing against me when I made the exact same point in my post.

[Renathras]

I mean, you were the one being condescending to me and completely missing my point. Not once but (at least) twice.

No, there's no deliberate on my part. Perhaps you're projecting your own actions, but I'll leave that for you to figure out yourself.

We were talking about things being strong or not. Someone brought up lost DPS. Others pointed out how it could be a DPS gain. That person held that it is always a cost - that is important enough to debate over and decide whether the ability is "worthless" or not over, mind you - but also noted they don't play Ultimates, Savages, or even Extremes, and was talking about Normal content. Content in which it is completely irrelevant and you can clear most of without even using most of your oGCDs to begin with.

So I was pointing out the absurdity of discussing optimal DPS in normal content while simultaneously acting high and mighty and pretending the skill has no value in high end content. Content where it CAN BE and often IS optimal and extremely powerful, even when it isn't.

So if you wish to critique someone's point, make sure you've read the room, the context, and understand what they're arguing in the context of what is being discussed, not in some unrelated vacuum of "ackshually..." that isn't relevant to the actual discussion being had.

[Rilifane]

No, there's no deliberate on my part. Perhaps you're projecting your own actions, but I'll leave that for you to figure out yourself.

Not at all.
I disagree with some people a lot but I'm entirely capable of agreeing with someone if they make a good point. And I disagree with Gemina a lot but it's still true that a Spreadlo isn't free by nature and that using Dissipation doesn't automatically make it free.

We were talking about things being strong or not. Someone brought up lost DPS. Others pointed out how it could be a DPS gain. That person held that it is always a cost - that is important enough to debate over and decide whether the ability is "worthless" or not over, mind you - but also noted they don't play Ultimates, Savages, or even Extremes, and was talking about Normal content.

And that is exactly what I disagreed with as well as you might have noticed.
Here:
"I disagree though that Spreadlo is near worthless or a relic of the past."

Content in which it is completely irrelevant and you can clear most of without even using most of your oGCDs to begin with.

I know that Gemina doesn't participate in endgame content.

But one thing: optimizing is not limited to Ex and above and perhaps that is where the misunderstanding stems from.
You can optimize in all content and doing it is independent from the need to do it to increase your chances for a kill. That was the point I made and where I disagreed and still disagree with you.
The need to optimize doesn't even exist in Ex and Savage. Even at min ilvl you don't seem to need it from what I've seen in p1s to p4s part 1 - the only fight I can't speak for is p4s part 2 at min ilvl. So even in the vast majority of endgame content it is irrelevant in terms of "Is it necessary for a kill or not?".
You can still clear with comfort GCD shielding every aoe, without greeding for another GCD on melee or caster, without uptime strats, without shield-cheesing mechanics, without GCD shielding to be able to use melee lb3.

Despite all this it is completely valid to optimize in Ex, Savage above min ilvl and at min ilvl - and yes, even in alli raids, dungeons and normal raids. Precisely because the fact that something, as you said, is irrelevant and doesn't matter doesn't contest the point that it might be suboptimal.
If something was optimal, it was optimal even if it wasn't needed for a clear.
If something was suboptimal, it was suboptimal even if it wouldn't have made a difference in terms of clearing content.
I never said that something is always suboptimal or always optimal, on the contrary. Just that it making a difference or not doesn't change the facts.

It sounded as if your stance is "It (Spreadlo or any other GCD heal) can be optimal but even if it is not it doesn't matter because a kill shouldn't rely on 295 potency from a Broil" and while it's true that kill shouldn't and likely never will be decided by one Broil more or less and also true that GCD heals can be optimal (as I stressed in my other post) it does not mean that it's automatically irrelevant in a discussion about optimal gameplay just because it wasn't and shouldn't be needed to even get a kill.

I hope my point is clearer now.
As for your digs... I will simply opt to ignore them unless you'd prefer to have mud fight over the internet.

[Sebazy]

P4S pt1 needs significantly more optimisation than pt2 at min ilvl for whatever reason++

On topic, 100% optimisation isn't needed for the overwhelming majority of content out there, doubly so as a healer. However for many people, improving and chasing their own performance metrics IS a good chunk of the enjoyment.

I have great logs in most casual content and I can promise you it's not because I'm legitimately good, it's simply because I try hard.

[Mortex]

Of course a adlo spread isn’t optimal but if it gives you 3 less gcd heals in a situation like god king thordarn phase because you either swap mitigation a bit around or it just blocks 3 out of 6/7 hits in a 1-1-6 stack. Same with gigaflare, first hit with a adlo spread and decent mitigation blocks 1 hit full and that safes in most cases 1 gcd heal from both healer.

[Renathras]

All I'll say then is this:

There are times it's optimal.

There are times it is a massive buffer that pays off for it being EVER. SO. MINIMALLY. SLIGHTLY. sub-optimal.

And you can only do it on a 90 sec CD, so it's not something you're like to use on CD anyway but rather using deliberately at key times when you can get the most out of it and it makes things overall better than they otherwise would be - e.g. optimal/optimizing.

And there are times when it is extremely useful and beneficial, hence, very worth-full.

If you want to believe otherwise, on any or all points, you are free to do so and I will not contest it further.

[NobleWinter]

You really took the time to say that Adlo Spread can be both optimal and sub-optimal ������������������

These forums are definitely amusing if nothing else.