Rescue is Griefing

[Lunalepsy]

And this is why jobs and other game elements have been streamlined to the point there is no difference between them.

[ZedxKayn]

And this is why jobs and other game elements have been streamlined to the point there is no difference between them.

Also I find this reply ironic considering that rescue is a role-wide action and thus participates in making healers feel indistinguishable from one another.

[Gemina]

If I wanted to grief a player, I wouldn't heal them. If we want to bring up a DPS loss, or some kind of healer god complex; if a player slips up and takes unnecessary damage, and an unavoidable attack is about to finish them off, I could just simply let them die.

Why would I do that though? DPS players pump out far more damage than I do, so it isn't in mine let alone anyone else's best interest to let them die. This same concept applies to Rescue. It doesn't serve anyone to use the ability maliciously.

I can also say this, I have killed far more players by hesitating to use Rescue than I have actually using it on someone. Something interesting to think about for a healer is if a player dies, and their rescue is not on cooldown. What this means to the healer is the player could have been saved. Granted, a healer is not always in position to rescue a player who is about to face an untimely demise.

Of course, I won't deny that the ability has caused grief. The OP and others are evidence of that. However, what needs to be known is that 99.9% of healers have nothing but the best intent 99.9% of the time they use Rescue. It doesn't always work out that way, but they are just trying to do their job.

The ability is also highly used to actually increase DPS uptime. I have used the ability countless times to bring a melee back into range when mechs force them out. I have received many appreciative comments in chat when doing so. This ability is actually really, really good to have.

[Midareyukki]

On one hand, I don't see why giving players a buff to select when to yeet to the stooge that gave it to you is such a bad thing. It offers what OP wants: consent, it's less intrusive and it places the responsability 100% on the person for clicking it too late\early\not at all rather than on the healer for using it at all.

We have two duty action buttons as it is, it's not like repurposing one is going to break anything. Plus, could even allow for more actions of the sort.

On the other hand, it does defy the purpose of Rescue. Often, healers rescue you specifically because they see you screw up and you WON'T have the mindset\knowledge of the mechanic\reaction time to correct it. So sometimes giving up a bit of control is good for you not wasting them 2400 MP and some sanity. And some DPS for the whole party.

"Just leave me dead" is all fun and games until you realize this could save entire parties if the next mechanic requires specific people to be alive.

[Gemina]

On one hand, I don't see why giving players a buff to select when to yeet to the stooge that gave it to you is such a bad thing. It offers what OP wants: consent, it's less intrusive and it places the responsability 100% on the person for clicking it too late\early\not at all rather than on the healer for using it at all.

This argument can only be made by someone who doesn't play healer, or has limited experience doing so. A healer does not have the time to evaluate if a player has opted in/out of Rescue when a mechanic is about to go off. The healer has to get themselves to safety, evaluate the field to see if any comrades are standing in bad, if there are (sometimes multiple players are in bad), they have to target that player and then rescue them. It is an extremely engaging process, and like I said in my initial post, a moments hesitation results in that player dying.

Play healer. Extensively. Then make this argument.

[ZedxKayn]

This argument can only be made by someone who doesn't play healer, or has limited experience doing so. A healer does not have the time to evaluate if a player has opted in/out of Rescue when a mechanic is about to go off. The healer has to get themselves to safety, evaluate the field to see if any comrades are standing in bad, if there are (sometimes multiple players are in bad), they have to target that player and then rescue them. It is an extremely engaging process, and like I said in my initial post, a moments hesitation results in that player dying.

Play healer. Extensively. Then make this argument.

I've literally made this argument and if you took the time to read what I said you'd know I play healer. I've cleared multiple ultimates with it ffs. Which I know the same can't be said for most of the people championing rescue here.

Moving an ally without their consent is shit game design and really unfun for them. Give healers utility sure but not in a way that FORCES their judgment onto others. If the 2400 mp saved by a rescue actually ends up being essential and valuable in the current state of healers where the only way to run out of MP is throwing raises out constantly, a 2 minutes cooldown isn't saving no run. Stop assuming that anyone who isn't defending rescue is just a malding DPS.

[Packetdancer]

We need the option to choose if a Healer can cast Rescue on us.

Just give me a /rescueoff so I can toggle wether or not I can be rescued

Rescue should be opt in or opt out and I don't get why the idea of giving players the choice to be rescued or not got people frothing at the mouth.

As I have said in many (many, many, many) other threads...

Rescue is a janky tool at the best of times; even when I know it will save someone, I often don't bother trying—at least on the first pull or two—because half the time Rescue goes off after it should, and sometimes that's a tiny bit too late. And yeah, it's jarring and sometimes embarrassing/annoying when you get Rescued.

Despite that, it is frequently the only option I have for saving people. And if I do not use it, I am going to be out 2400 MP (unless I'm on WHM with Thin Air off cooldown) as well as either my Swiftcast or 8 seconds of cast time.

It is a terrible tool, but it is also the only tool SQEX has given us for those scenarios.

And if in addition to the janky timing and behavior, there was a solid chance that Rescue just would not work, I know that I personally—and quite a few other healers—would simply not use it. Which would be, functionally, equivalent to removing Rescue.

So if it's a choice between a 'disable toggle' on Rescue that makes it useless or actually getting rid of it—the latter option at least is likely to have SQEX giving us some other tool to use.

If Rescue needs to go, then actually get rid of it so there's a chance of getting something useful in its place. Don't kill it, remove all the organs, and then prop the taxidermied corpse up in a chair and go "Look! Rescue's still here! You don't need a different tool; you still have this one!"

Because, you want to know a secret? Most healers don't like Rescue. It is, as I said, janky in the best of circumstances. We only hold onto it because it is the only option SQEX has given us to save people in many situations.

If people approach this not as "Rescue is terrible, healers are trolls, we should take away their one tool that can keep people alive in many of these situations." but rather come at it as "Rescue is a flawed tool, let's brainstorm some better alternatives that can work to save people in the scenarios Rescue is meant to." then I promise you, most healers will be your allies in that discussion.

I have, in previous threads, suggested multiple designs for a replacement for Rescue. The simplest is one where instead of moving someone, it puts a buff on them for, say, 15 seconds. If they drop below 1 HP during the time they have the buff, they instead are rocketed to the healer's side (for those 'the arena is vanishing' or knockback scenarios), left alive with 1 HP, and given the Brink of Death debuff (e.g. the one you get from a double-rez).

Under that design, if the person did have a plan to get out of the bad, then hey, the buff drops off and nothing happens; no debuff, no being moved to the healer's side. If they did not have a plan to get to safety (or executed that plan poorly), the healer is at least not out 2400 MP and potentially 8 seconds of slow-casting a rez. The Brink of Death debuff means you can't cheese it ("Look, an extra tank invuln!") without consequence.

And the ability only fires if the person was going to die; if they want to try to complain that they were moved against their well... well, if it went off, they would've been dead without it. Meaning they would still have ended up where the healer is standing by virtue of that being how rezzes work; you show up where the healer who raised you is standing.

This is, of course, far from the only possible replacement you could make for Rescue; it's just a relatively simple one, and demonstrates how you could make an ability that it would be difficult to use for trolling. (After all, if it goes off, it means that if it hadn't gone off the person would've otherwise been dead.)

Come at the discussion from that angle, and I can almost promise you that you will meet much less resistance from healers.

(Not, of course, that SQEX is likely to make class/role balance decisions based on forum threads regardless, but still.)

Rescue isn’t god modeing. If it is, then simply playing a healer is god modeing because healers determine if you live or die.

I feel like this merits quoting Josh Strife Hayes, as regards MMO healers: "You're all sacks of hitpoints, and I'm god; never forget that!"

[Elkanah]

Did anyone notice the healer in the new FFXIV player guide (they just released on the lodestone)? The SCH rescued the adventurer back to the screen! TOXIC lullll. I love how it's become a thing in XIV and the community team is rolling with it.

[Mika_Zahard]

When revealed in 2017 everybody said it'd be used for griefing.

It was griefing in Stormblood. It was griefing in Shadowbringers. And it's still just griefing in Endwalker.

Even in rare cases where Rescue has a real use, like rescuing dive3 into the stack in UCOB, it still ends up griefing because half the time the healer Rescues early, pulling the divebomb into the group. And for what? For nothing. Not only can you now skip divebombs entirely, you don't need 8 people for that stack.

The ability shouldn't exist if its only use is extremely niche in high-end content that the majority of players won't ever touch.

If you think you need Rescue because another player keeps standing in AoEs constantly, realize that same player could be casting Rescue on you. There is no skill check when you cast Rescue. Healers are not automatically better than other players just because their role icon is green.

I'm sick of healers tossing me off ledges, pulling me into AoEs, and ruining my uptime in casual content for no reason. Rescue is negatively impacting my gameplay. I have never had a positive experience with Rescue.

Stop standing in bad and position properly.

[TaleraRistain]

I tend to use Rescue sparingly. I agree with NekoMataMata's general point that I'm deciding for someone else when I use it. I try to give my party mates the benefit of the doubt that they have a plan. Unless it's something I know is insta-death and they won't make it to the safe area in time. Or they have been missing mechanics and I'm not confident they won't continue to miss them. But I'm generally pretty chill even if they get a vuln here and there so long as it's not putting undue strain on my ability to maintain support for the entire party.

As Packetdancer mentioned, Rescue can be janky sometimes. I really don't like the drag animation. I would be a lot happier if it was an instant warp. Because I have accidentally killed people with server lag and yanking them through the bad. I apologized and most were pretty cool about it. So I'm not afraid of using Rescue. I just don't find a lot of instances where I feel it needs to be used. I wouldn't cry if they got rid of it, since it can be used for some rather obnoxious purposes. If they did, then I'd be happy to get a gap closer instead.