MSQ Difficulty and Exclusion

[Rilifane]

I think I would have more sympathy for healers if I wasn't seeing a large number who refuse to heal anyone for any reason and just DPS. Since moogle started it has been a positive rush of healers refusing to heal. Some even saying at the beginning "I am going to DPS so better not screw up none of you will get heals." Great fun when the tank is doing it for the first time and missing mechanics. In over 40 runs of Prae I have run into at least 9 healers like this.

My attitude is you want more to do? Show me you can do what you are expected to do now.

In that case you're surely fine with deleting the vast majority of dps buttons from dps and tanks because I've seen plenty of tanks not using mitigation at all, let alone somewhat decently and plenty of dps doing a really poor job at that one thing they're supposed to do. Yes, I think a 1-2 combo should do it for tanks and they'll get a 30s dot on a 60s cooldown and that's it. One aoe, no more. Same for dps.
Sorry guys, you're not worthy of being able to enjoy any form of engaging gameplay until you've proven Myrany that you can do more. Every healer, mind you. Because having 31 of 40 healers doing what they're supposed to do is not enough either.

What kind of bullshit argument is this?

Edit: Also, what HyoMin said.
Not seeing a GCD heal castbar doesn't mean they're not healing. I can count the number of times that I've met a healer that actively refuses to heal and says so on one hand. "I shouldn't have to heal here, heal yourself" was something I've seen only a handful of times over the course of several years of playing FFXIV.

[Myrany]

In that case you're surely fine with deleting the vast majority of dps buttons from dps and tanks because I've seen plenty of tanks not using mitigation at all, let alone somewhat decently and plenty of dps doing a really poor job at that one thing they're supposed to do. Yes, I think a 1-2 combo should do it for tanks and they'll get a 30s dot on a 60s cooldown and that's it. One aoe, no more. Same for dps.
Sorry guys, you're not worthy of being able to enjoy any form of engaging gameplay until you've proven Myrany that you can do more. Every healer, mind you. Because having 31 of 40 healers doing what they're supposed to do is not enough either.

What kind of bullshit argument is this?

The argument is EVERYONE should be doing the job they signed up for in the dungeon. In the case of a healer that is BOTH healing and DPS. A healer letting a party fail because they refuse to heal is not doing the job they signed up for. Don't ask for more to do when you are not doing what is already there.

If I listen to the forums pressing 1111111111 to DPS on healer is boring. Well obviously a fair few healers like it that way since they refuse to stop DPSing long enough to hit the occasional heal button when it is needed

[Rilifane]

The argument is EVERYONE should be doing the job they signed up for in the dungeon. In the case of a healer that is BOTH healing and DPS. A healer letting a party fail because they refuse to heal is not doing the job they signed up for. Don't ask for more to do when you are not doing what is already there.

If I listen to the forums pressing 1111111111 to DPS on healer is boring. Well obviously a fair few healers like it that way since they refuse to stop DPSing long enough to hit the occasional heal button when it is needed

Way to ignore the point.
Of course everyone should do their job. But you know how reality is? That you'll meet bad players - across ALL roles, mind you. Bad tanks that don't mitigate at all, bad dps that don't aoe or don't even get their basic single target rotation right. And these bad players won't improve just because of your "Then prove to ME that YOU are worthy of doing more" attitude because as Forte said: they don't care.
They will never care. No amount of playing the custodian will change that. Yet you actively advocate for healers staying in their completely gutted, sorry state devoid of engaging gameplay and identity because some people in DF hurt you.
All roles have bad players but gutting them beyond measure to drive away the only people that are interested in it and good at it solves nothing.
All this is is a pointless double standard that makes it worse instead of better.

[Myrany]

Way to ignore the point.
Of course everyone should do their job. But you know how reality is? That you'll meet bad players - across ALL roles, mind you. Bad tanks that don't mitigate at all, bad dps that don't aoe or don't even get their basic single target rotation right. And these bad players won't improve just because of your "Then prove to ME that YOU are worthy of doing more" attitude because as Forte said: they don't care.
They will never care. No amount of playing the custodian will change that. Yet you actively advocate for healers staying in their completely gutted, sorry state devoid of engaging gameplay and identity because some people in DF hurt you.
All roles have bad players but gutting them beyond measure to drive away the only people that are interested in it and good at it solves nothing.
All this is is a pointless double standard that makes it worse instead of better.

Guess what? Healers are not special snowflakes. IF they don't enjoy the class by all means they should stop playing it. I would say that to anyone in any class. If queues get longer so be it. I have patience I can wait or go back to healing myself. No double standard at all. If someone enters group content they should be doing the job they signed up for to the best of their ability. I don't care what role they queued in Heals, DPS or Tank.

[Supersnow845]

Guess what? Healers are not special snowflakes. IF they don't enjoy the class by all means they should stop playing it. I would say that to anyone in any class. If queues get longer so be it. I have patience I can wait or go back to healing myself. No double standard at all. If someone enters group content they should be doing the job they signed up for to the best of their ability. I don't care what role they queued in Heals, DPS or Tank.

Okay by please explain why healers should be punished for bad healers but other roles shouldn’t, should I be crying to yoshi p that tanks needs their kit gutted when I heal a tank with no mitigation, or that DPS should have their kit gutted when one of them doesn’t use AOE

till you answer that point you are ist dodging round and round her point

[Myrany]

Okay by please explain why healers should be punished for bad healers but other roles shouldn’t, should I be crying to yoshi p that tanks needs their kit gutted when I heal a tank with no mitigation, or that DPS should have their kit gutted when one of them doesn’t use AOE

till you answer that point you are ist dodging round and round her point

And you are ignoring mine. Personally I think no one should be "crying to yoshi p". All I said is when healers start using the kit they have to do the job they signed up for then asking for more will have more traction.

No one is being "punished." Don't like what the job is expected to do then don't do the job. Choice is on the individual. I see no imposed punishment in any of that.

[Seera1024]

And you are ignoring mine. Personally I think no one should be "crying to yoshi p". All I said is when healers start using the kit they have to do the job they signed up for then asking for more will have more traction.

No one is being "punished." Don't like what the job is expected to do then don't do the job. Choice is on the individual. I see no imposed punishment in any of that.

So the players who use their entire kit can't ask for more because 9 out of 40 healers in your recent play through decided they didn't want to heal?

[Rilifane]

Guess what? Healers are not special snowflakes. IF they don't enjoy the class by all means they should stop playing it. I would say that to anyone in any class. If queues get longer so be it. I have patience I can wait or go back to healing myself. No double standard at all. If someone enters group content they should be doing the job they signed up for to the best of their ability. I don't care what role they queued in Heals, DPS or Tank.

Healers aren't but if someone expects that an entire role gets and stays gutted despite the majority evidently doing their job (31 of 40, remember?) because some couldn't prove to them that they are worthy of engaging gameplay, that would make that person win the special snowflake award.

While also conveniently ignoring that every role without exception has its bad players and will always have them.
You failed to explain why healers should be gutted because of a couple of bad players while tanks and dps shouldn't.
And you know this is called?
A double standard.

[Myrany]

Healers aren't but if someone expects that an entire role gets and stays gutted despite the majority evidently doing their job (31 of 40, remember?) because some couldn't prove to them that they are worthy of engaging gameplay, that would make that person win the special snowflake award.

While also conveniently ignoring that every role without exception has its bad players and will always have them.
You failed to explain why healers should be gutted because of a couple of bad players while tanks and dps shouldn't.
And you know this is called?
A double standard.

I never said that healers should be gutted. I never said anyone should be. I said don't like how it is don't play it. Otherwise do the job you signed up for. Same is true for any role.

EDIT: Do you seriously think if Yoshi P sees a sudden huge healer shortage he won't look into why it happened?

[AwesomeJr44]

EDIT: Do you seriously think if Yoshi P sees a sudden huge healer shortage he won't look into why it happened?

No, Yoshi and the rest of the dev team will not listen to anyone and just assume that the reason they think people aren't healing is the correct one and make changes with that mindset even if it makes the problem worse. They've proven time and time again that they don't care what anyone in the community thinks unless it lines up with what they want to implement.

Example: Kaiten on Samurai