Revert summoner to 5.55 while re-reworking it please?

[SweetPete]

Although having more primals are nice, adding more primals like Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan does not add any depth to the job, you will just be using rite, catastrophe and astral flow of different elements.

Honestly what job has any depth anymore? Astro and Dragoon are busy but where is the depth? Summoner is just like every other job in this game. Homogenize.

[Renathras]

I've played SMN since SB with various levels of effectiveness, and I like it now better than what it was. I think the issue is that it looks like they made it as a "base" or "foundation" at 90 so they can add to it, but that makes it feel like having a Job at 50 and not having the additions yet. Plus side means they're forward thinking and giving themselves a plan to grow it over time, but downside means it feels incomplete right now.

...but it was an absolute mess before. As someone else here said, it had lots of things that work individually, but were a total mess together. And that's also why the Devs said they really couldn't figure out how to expand on it without breaking it, since it was already held together with duct tape and happy thoughts; it was a fluke it was even playable in that form, honestly.

I just don’t understand why we don’t have Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan? This baffles me honestly. The current summoner we have feels very unfinished. It’s like they wanted to do more but ran out of time on the job and had to move to the next job to meet the deadlines.

I COULD be wrong, but if I had to guess, it's as you say that they designed it this way specifically so they could add to it. I could see them giving us three more summons in 7.0, then in 8.0, we get a new Demi (possibly with 3 summons). So your rotation would be something like Bahamut, Titan/Ifrit/Garuda, Phoenix, Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva, Alexander, Ravana/Bismark/Odin [Knights of the Round seems like it wouldn't be a Jolly Rancher gem summon, lol)

And for people wondering how many ways they can employ those two buttons, I'm just thinking of the BLU Ravana spell (that little 4 hit cleave thing where you have Ravana's wings and strike with two swords)

...but this IS a total guess on my part. I just am looking at the design and seeing that being the most likely direction they'd go based on this foundation.

.

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot:

To the OP: It's HIGHLY unlikely they'd revert it.

1) It would be an admission they made a horrible mistake, which they PROBABLY don't want to do.

2) It would have nothing from 81-90, which does matter, but they'd also be reverting the entire leveling process rework.

3) It would wreak absolute havoc with current damage numbers and Job balance (who would play old SMN when it does slightly higher than MCH levels of damage like new SMN?), and require them to re-balance everything, but only for 8-16 months; lots of effort for little gain.

4) A temporary reversion would mean people would have to learn this new-old SMN only for THAT to be ripped away from them when they change it again in 8-16 months.

5) It would make people that like old SMN even madder when it's ripped away from them a SECOND time with 6.5 or 7.0 (whenever they converted it to whatever the new new thing would be)

6) It would alienate all the people that like the new SMN, and it would only make the old SMN fans happy until the 6.5/7.0 rework.

I'm just seeing a lot of downsides here and no real gain.

[Yanyami]

There's a way to had some depth in the current SMN.

- Shorten the cooldown of bahamut and phoenix so that you can just throw 2 gems summoning between them. This way we have to make choices
- Enhance the specificity of the gem summonings skills

[Kolsykol]

Certainly.

And that's exactly what we were "promised" back when they announced the Egi glamour system, which would've allowed us to change the summons we currently had with the ones we were missing (even if it was "cosmetic").

Just a shame they never expanded upon it since its original release...which (by the way) we're looooong overdue.
Like SEVEN (EIGHT?) YEARS OVERDUE, in fact.

The Egi glamour was released like eight years ago.
I don't think that's relevant to how SMN should play today.

Glam is one thing but I was talking about gameplay.
I don't think SMN really needs more Summons in their rotation I think it'd be too much, like I mentioned before I think SMN is already speedrunning them as it is.

[fulminating]

words

They could give us all the summons in the world and it would still be terrible for a variety of reasons. Particularly that the primals are too short for any meaningful unique gameplay while being too long to have a non-primal phase. This could be a byproduct of the equally asinine decision to have everything on a 2 minute cycle, but given these changes were made simultaneously that's entirely on them. If they did have a 3 demi rotation and extended time between demis from one minute to two, it could lead to somewhere interesting, but it could also be needlessly punishing in both normal content and unexpectedly short fights. Summoner is currently fundamentally broken which is especially impressive given how little there is there.


1) What is FFXIV as we know it but an admission of a horrible mistake?

2) Caster potencies remained largely unchanged if that's what you're referring to? Else you're saying that the issue is not the issue.

3) see 2)

4) This doesn't seem to be a point with any substance.

5) Hopefully they'd have made something that has gameplay, specifically gameplay in keeping with the summoner we've had for the last decade so the change wouldn't be as bad.

6) If they'd done it properly then it wouldn't be necessary.
New summoner does scarcely better than mch damage, old summoner was an actual caster and did appropriate damage for such a role, ie upper half of the dps.

[Ggwppino]

There's a way to had some depth in the current SMN.

- Shorten the cooldown of bahamut and phoenix so that you can just throw 2 gems summoning between them. This way we have to make choices
- Enhance the specificity of the gem summonings skills

I dont really agree because the smn will not be synchronized to the buff window of the party.
I would add another 2/3 elementals to actually give the smn a choice as to which one is best to use. Each elemental will bring advantages and disadvantages and it will be at the discretion of the smn which elemental to summon in order to best deal with the game mechanics
I would make phoenix's unique abilities (hot and heal) castable when the smn actually finds them useful.
I would add ogcds to make the burst phases even more hectic. Currently with 4 festers per burst you have to have a minimum of timing, adding more ogcds will increase the difficulty because it will force the smn to decide whether to make waivers, choose which ogcds to pull, and to always stay focused to cast them at the right time and not lose timing and uptime because of wrong weaving.

[Exodus-E]

I don't think SMN really needs more Summons in their rotation I think it'd be too much

Right, which is what I implied in my original post:
That they should add more summon variety as "glamours" rather than new (separate) skills.
These would still work the same as the ones we currently have (like say, a Leviathan-Egi/Sapphire Leviathan working like Ifrit-Egi/Ruby Ifrit).

[Kira_Yaeger]

hehehe press lego go boom very fun :thumbsup:

[Darkpaw]

I’m not asking for a permanent rollback, just one while they decide which direction they want to take summoner. If goring blade, the magic and oGCDs were removed from paladin leaving only a simplified royal authority/atonement combo I’d be asking for the same. That this has been done to a DPS is beyond the pale.

Edit: your thing says machinist- imagine if all you had was barrel stabiliser tacked onto drill and the hypercharge buttons.

Any rollback temporary or permanent is not going to happen. MCH’s begged and pleaded for a rollback throughout Stormblood when the job was literally unplayable for 80% of the playerbase, it did not happen.

All I’m saying is stop looking backwards, take what you currently have and build and expand upon it. The direction of summoner is fine, but any one would agree it needs more. Aetherflow is not an interesting job mechanic, summoner needs something more. It needs something to keep people engaged but it has to be something worth while. Previous iterations of summoner are not going to hold the key to this answer.

What are some job mechanics you would like to see added to the current iteration that would make it better? Something that makes sense for the new direction and adds something beneficial to the summoner.

[tearagion]

Any rollback temporary or permanent is not going to happen. MCH’s begged and pleaded for a rollback throughout Stormblood when the job was literally unplayable for 80% of the playerbase, it did not happen.

All I’m saying is stop looking backwards, take what you currently have and build and expand upon it. The direction of summoner is fine, but any one would agree it needs more. Aetherflow is not an interesting job mechanic, summoner needs something more. It needs something to keep people engaged but it has to be something worth while. Previous iterations of summoner are not going to hold the key to this answer.

What are some job mechanics you would like to see added to the current iteration that would make it better? Something that makes sense for the new direction and adds something beneficial to the summoner.

What part of SMN's direction is fine? Care to specify? All I see is a set in stone rotation of the ruin spam everyone apparently hated, with different colours every 15s. Please elucidate specifically what part of newSMN is a good direction to take the job, without diverging into fanciful imaginations about where it could go. I am sincerely curious about what an answer would be.