Dragoon 6.2 Civil discussion thread

[Vencio]

I wish you all Dragoon players the best,

Not sure what changes are yet to come that brought such concern & while I don’t play it’s job all I can say is try not to over stress it & go accordingly about your concerns.

I wish you Dragoons the best

[Rhym]

"Wait to see what the changes are before complaining." But DRG doesn't really need changes right now? At most a couple QoL changes would be nice. But this is planned to be an extensive rework. DRG's gcds flow pretty nicely right now, and all of their ogcds have already been changed to be completely doubleweave-able with each other except for Stardiver. There are plenty of other jobs that require you to doubleweave extensively in order to maximize damage output so I don't see why this is an issue fundamentally with the job itself. If they think that that's an issue then they would have to be looking to change like 3/4ths of all the jobs in the game.

[Kolsykol]

"Wait to see what the changes are before complaining." But DRG doesn't really need changes right now? At most a couple QoL changes would be nice. But this is planned to be an extensive rework. DRG's gcds flow pretty nicely right now, and all of their ogcds have already been changed to be completely doubleweave-able with each other except for Stardiver. There are plenty of other jobs that require you to doubleweave extensively in order to maximize damage output so I don't see why this is an issue fundamentally with the job itself. If they think that that's an issue then they would have to be looking to change like 3/4ths of all the jobs in the game.

I don't think that DRG needs a rework rly.
But if they're going to get one then yeah I think we should wait and see what the changes actually are.
Otherwise people are just getting riled up and angry about something they don't even know what it is yet and might even end up enjoying.

It's another thing to discuss what you want to see and don't want to see.
But just ranting about the worst case scenario as if you know for sure it's going to happen is kinda pointless and weird and quite a lot of people are engaging in that.
If people are going to complain about it at least complain about something that is an actual thing and not just totally imagined and just wild speculation that is intentionally bad for the sake of being mad.

It kinda feels like all nuance just constantly goes out the window because people want to have an excuse to rant and complain.

[Rolder50]

But just ranting about the worst case scenario as if you know for sure it's going to happen is kinda pointless and weird and quite a lot of people are engaging in that.
If people are going to complain about it at least complain about something that is an actual thing and not just totally imagined and just wild speculation that is intentionally bad for the sake of being mad.

I find it rather understandable that people are concerned. Pretty much every single recent rework has ended up dramatically changing the job in question and alienated former players of that job.

[Naomishtola]

I find it rather understandable that people are concerned. Pretty much every single recent rework has ended up dramatically changing the job in question and alienated former players of that job.

Yeah that's my concern as well. With a lot of these reworks/changes the devs seem to pander towards 2 groups of people: people who actually enjoy and play the class... or people who don't like the class. A good example for this is summoner. Whether you love or hate the job is irrelevant, but it certainly is a far cry from what is was in Shadowbringers and lost all of its previous complexity and gameplay nuances (both good and bad) thus alienating the people who actually liked the class and just wanted to see the yank gone. I feel the same is true with samurai, the kaiten removal was simply an attempt at making the job easier and less punishing, but unlike summoner, it hasn't gotten any popularity with this change. I am not entirely sure if any dragoon main at all even asked for any change to the class aside from the obvious, when other classes seem to be needing that much more. I just don't wish to see dragoon dumbed down for the sole purpose of appealing to people who otherwise don't even touch the job, when there are 18 other classes to choose from. I hope this is not the route the devs want to take, especially since a big part of the community enjoys more challenging jobs such as black mage, however the devs do not seem to realize that.

[Curinteru]

SE talked about button bloating and having too many oGCDs. However, we, main DRGs, don't want our job to change because we love it.

Well, I have the perfect solution to both opinions:

Just make Spineshatter do no damage and have 2 or 3 charges (they could even be shared with Elusive jump). BOOM! perfect DRG, we supress having to weave Spineshatter and we win some mobility without touching a job which is already (almost) perfect.

What do you guys, think?

[Shurrikhan]

SE talked about button bloating and having too many oGCDs. However, we, main DRGs, don't want our job to change because we love it.

Well, I have the perfect solution to both opinions:

Just make Spineshatter do no damage and have 2 or 3 charges (they could even be shared with Elusive jump). BOOM! perfect DRG, we suppress having to weave Spineshatter and we win some mobility without touching a job which is already (almost) perfect.

While I don't hate the idea, if the job is already wholly loved as is, why would removing some of its decision making and reducing its APM by a cast per minute be a good thing?

It's not as if SSD is hard to weave as is, and it still has 15 seconds' span of leniency for mobility purposes, such that between it, DFD, SD, and EJ, DRG is already quite the mobile job.

The main "problems" the devs mentioned of DRG at this point, now that Mirage Dive and Jump have been consolidated, were not that it was button bloated, but simply that it had designed itself into a wall, leaving it no apparent direction in which to further develop.

[xAFROx]

SE talked about button bloating and having too many oGCDs. However, we, main DRGs, don't want our job to change because we love it.

Well, I have the perfect solution to both opinions:

Just make Spineshatter do no damage and have 2 or 3 charges (they could even be shared with Elusive jump). BOOM! perfect DRG, we supress having to weave Spineshatter and we win some mobility without touching a job which is already (almost) perfect.

What do you guys, think?

I have question. I keep seeing everyone suggest removing the potency from spineshatter dive, but... what's spine shattering about that? It sounds like everyone just wants one less jump ability in favor of having a gap closer along with a disengage. Reaper has that, and samurai has that, monk doesn't, and technically dragoon doesn't... is that a request for homogenization or is that viewed as nuanced design?

[Reimmi]

While I don't hate the idea, if the job is already wholly loved as is, why would removing some of its decision making and reducing its APM by a cast per minute be a good thing?

It's not as if SSD is hard to weave as is, and it still has 15 seconds' span of leniency for mobility purposes, such that between it, DFD, SD, and EJ, DRG is already quite the mobile job.

The main "problems" the devs mentioned of DRG at this point, now that Mirage Dive and Jump have been consolidated, were not that it was button bloated, but simply that it had designed itself into a wall, leaving it no apparent direction in which to further develop.

Personally i'd asy its a good thing because mobility abilities doing damage is bad game design imo, i was pleased when monks lost shoulder tackle, and would like to see the tanks recieve the same treatment (with new OGCD's to fill the gaps left by these skills ofc)

[Shurrikhan]

mobility abilities doing damage is bad game design imo

Why?

That seems a warrant that would apply also to fall-off AoEs (or AoE | ST shared CD pairs), or arguably CDs of any sort. You might, for their presence, be "burdened" with having to consider the value of getting x more relative hits by holding Guren some 10 seconds for adds vs. blowing Senei on CD on the boss. You might be burdened with remembering not to hit a CD on CD before a period of forced downtime.

Why should the knowledge required to optimize gap closers with damage be considered differently? What makes the cases by which it rewards you for remembering when you'll actually need that mobility so bad for gameplay? Why is that added skill ceiling considered "bad game design" despite it functioning like any other part of learning how to best use one's kit in a given fight?




With damage-dealing gap-closers, a job's performance is faintly, faintly more variable (though, only up to the point the free mobility CDs can cover all one's ability needs), but one's apm is also more faintly consistent (the button not going to waste when absent of its situations, such that it is more an actual skill than just a mechanic-cancel key). The difference is ultimately miniscule. But it is a means, like any other kit optimization, of rewarding knowledge. So what's so bad about it.