What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lunaxia]

Almost every single one of those happened before the final act of the story, which was my point. Frankly, I have no idea why you think ANY of this has anything to do with what I said.

You referenced the supposed previous hardships of the characters as a means of defending the lack of repercussions for them in Endwalker; my point was they're still relatively non-existent next to the devastating and far-reaching effects of the backgrounds of previous protagonists, with the exception of Estinien. They're also relevant to the discussion regarding any character suffering; you're the one who arbitrarily defined Endwalker as a "final disc" to explain away the lack of any real impact the story had upon the cast, which is nonsense in itself considering Endwalker, like previous expansions, is a story in its own right within the saga. Do you truly read the final book of a series and expect nothing of real note to happen to the characters since it's the last installment in the tale, or would you not expect something all the more pivotal to happen considering they're at their most vulnerable at the most dramatic, climactic part of story so far?

What I specifically said was that Endwalker is the "Disc 4" portion of the Season 1 saga of FFXIV

And I reiterate that's nonsense. And even in the event that it wasn't, 5 games out of 15 is not "an exception", nor does that have any bearing on what should or shouldn't happen - it's down to the plot of the story, and if said writing takes me through a world-wide apocalypse to a creature of doom at the ends of the universe that can "unmake" a person with their power over life itself in their domain, I would expect far more serious implications than what we had.

Found a picture that sums up my feelings about the game at the moment.

If you're going to become despondent every time you are challenged, especially when the opinion you hold is in a relative minority, and - if I'm being honest - at times fairly incendiary in tone, then you need to readjust your expectations or go elsewhere where others share your opinions. Everyone has as much right to address you as you do to express yourself. It's also a tad childish and a little egocentric to think of yourself as any more deserving of space here than any other given person for whatever reason you deem appropriate.

[KizuyaKatogami]

aaaaand we’re back to if you’re in the minority just put up and shut up or leave. Glad to see this all come full circle

[Theodric]

Aveyond's nowhere near as inflammatory a poster as those suggesting someone is a 'bad person' for liking the 'wrong' characters or factions in a video game. How interesting that the same posters very eager to jump down Aveyond's throat are always silent whenever actual personal attacks take place.

The tone policing wears rather thin as well, on that note.

[Lunaxia]

Aveyond's nowhere near as inflammatory a poster as those suggesting someone is a 'bad person' for liking the 'wrong' characters or factions in a video game. How interesting that the same posters very eager to jump down Aveyond's throat are always silent whenever actual personal attacks take place.

The tone policing wears rather thin as well, on that note.

If you sound hostile, you will invite hostility. The way you express yourself matters, and goes a long way in dictating the response you will get. Reminding someone of that is not "tone policing."

aaaaand we’re back to if you’re in the minority just put up and shut up or leave. Glad to see this all come full circle

That's not what I said at all.

[Tama-Kanzashi]

I don't see a lot of what's being complained about as a "specifically designated" tone shift, but just the director and the writers building on what they had until they found something they liked. It's also why I never figured they would ever write Hydaelyn/Venat as a bad character. They definitely dropped the ball on writing her motivations but the intention has from the very beginning for her to be a character you're supposed to support. And they gave nuance to the Ascians but when they were written back in ARR as "I don't know what their goal is but lets just have them do bad stuff", they were never meant to be the characters that would ultimately be fully vindicated and "win". Especially since their version of winning deletes the whole game map.

Well if they did not intend to write her as "evil", then I find it very interesting that she did things that could most definitely be described as evil or, if we want to be generous, as questionable at the very best.

She lied to us (and by extension everyone who could hear her) from the start, telling a very colorful tale about how she and Zodiark apparently held hands around the campfire for a long time until he "suddenly" became "hungry for power" and then poor old her had to shackle him!
When in reality nothing of that was true - Zodiark never had will of his own, he had to be imbued with one by giving him a core which was Elidibus.

And about poor her never having a choice when it came to sundering the Ancients, tearing their souls apart? Hydaelyn was from the start designed by the person who dreamt her up (Venat) to be able to sunder with no alternative outcome, the visual evidence being her feet, which look like they were tailormade for that purpose.

Venat did never intend for this to go any other way, she was always perfectly willing to spill blood in order to make a new humanity that is more malleable to her purpose and easier to bend to fit her ideology.

She at the same time pampered the player character by trying to shield them from certain things and also manages to abuse them psychologially with carefully chosen lies to coax them into "heroics".

Jesus Christ riding on Ra-La, she even ripped her world into unstable reflections that, as we later learn, were never even meant to survive, she never considered them. Which results in her accepting that parts of souls could possibly become lost forever.
She also coaxed Minfilia into committing suicide so she could wear her body as a flesh suit, only to then abandon her on the First like an old sock puppet.

And we can even consider the loporrits, she made them and never told them that humanity doesn't exist in the same form anymore, they kept building everything Ancient sized - she could have sent a message through Sharlayan, sent a memo to the moon, anything really during those 12k years. But apparently it was funnier to see their little rabbit hearts explode upon learning that they had been doing everything wrong for an insanely long amount of time.

And concerning her being a bad character? Oh boy.
There is nothing good in the writing of a character that is expressed to be loved by every single person who talks about her, is an expert in every field of study, is the best as creation magic, knows everything about the world, is the strongest, the most experienced, the most loving. It's bad character writing at its finest.

[aveyond-dreams]

If you're going to become despondent every time you are challenged, especially when the opinion you hold is in a relative minority, and - if I'm being honest - at times fairly incendiary in tone, then you need to readjust your expectations or go elsewhere where others share your opinions. Everyone has as much right to address you as you do to express yourself. It's also a tad childish and a little egocentric to think of yourself as any more deserving of space here than any other given person for whatever reason you deem appropriate.

I endured the backlash from the community when the Final Fantasy mmorpg version of Blue Mage went from their epic origin story and gameplay in FFXI to a limited job in FFXIV that takes after a carnival magician.

I endured the backlash from the community when I spoke out against limited and gender-locked races. Anyone else remember when people actually defended the release state of Viera and Hrothgar? Because I sure do.

So on and so on. This is getting old. Forgive me if I feel the same way now as I did back then.

[KizuyaKatogami]

If you sound hostile, you will invite hostility. The way you express yourself matters, and goes a long way in dictating the response you will get. Reminding someone of that is not "tone policing."



That's not what I said at all.

There is 0 reason to bring up whether someones opinion is a minority or not. Especially in a thread where most people typically agree with the persons views youre arguing against.

[TyrAtatoskr]

There is nothing good in the writing of a character that is expressed to be loved by every single person who talks about her, is an expert in every field of study, is the best as creation magic, knows everything about the world, is the strongest, the most experienced, the most loving. It's bad character writing at its finest.

It's entirely possible that a person can be the best in everything, but not really as it is now. as you imply, Hydaelyn does come across as a Mary Sue in the current lore. She was in the seat of The Traveler; one which invites world-class good guys by its' nature, so it would make sense for her to be "the best at everything and well-loved." the obvious example of the premise working is your character, the sundered version of The Traveler, the Warrior of Light, being well-loved for good reason and the most powerful and nobody bats an eye; clearly the problem is not in premise but execution. unfortunately, it's poorly communicated in-game and she comes across as a doofus. For example, if Hydaelyn did actually do everything correctly and was good 100% of the time, while also making personal sacrifices (as the story wants us to believe but doesn't show beyond a cutscene that implies it), it would make sense that she was loved for the reasons the cast does. For now, the story in EW feels like 2 entirely unrelated expansions cut together because it was the 10-year anniversary and they didn't want to wait until the 12th for the big finale, which meant they had to fanangle all of the important and meaningful character arcs.

I feel like something that could have fixed her EW character is even a short quest that shows her fear about the job required as well as an actual attempt to change the future, instead of her immediately going "well I'm going to play by the rules of two immensely homicidal maniacs because lol." it would establish her as a well-meaning but imperfect character, and failing to convince the convocation about the final days would make a great failure point to allow for her becoming Hydaelyn as a last-ditch attempt to save the universe.



and a minor side note: the ea (blob aliens) could have easily circumvented entropy forever by time-traveling backward, as we know it's possible and only uses the aether of the future. at least a mention of them trying would be immeasurably better than not for purposes of storytelling, as primals seemingly do not require actual knowledge of how to do something in order to do it, and a severely weakened Garlond Ironworks only took a few generations to figure it out. Honestly, the addition of entropy in my fantasy universe literally killed any sense of magic the game had.

[Lunaxia]

I endured...

No one is asking you to make a martyr out of yourself and "endure" anything. If participating in discussions is detrimental to your mental wellbeing, then step away from the forums for a while. This is not the crusade you make it out to be, and disagreeing with you is not the personal attack you think it is.

There is 0 reason to bring up whether someones opinion is a minority or not. Especially in a thread where most people typically agree with the persons views youre arguing against.

There absolutely is a reason when I'm defining why you will be getting a response you perceive as a "backlash."

[aveyond-dreams]

No one is asking you to make a martyr out of yourself and "endure" anything. If participating in discussions is detrimental to your mental wellbeing, then step away from the forums for a while. This is not the crusade you make it out to be, and disagreeing with you is not the personal attack you think it is.



There absolutely is a reason when I'm defining why you will be getting a response you perceive as a "backlash."

Sorry for trying to stop the game I liked from turning into what it's turning into. It's more than just "disagreeing" when it's clear that there is a group of people who do not want players like me around and are cheering this whole thing on. This isn't even as bad as some of these recent job changes because at least when it comes to that I can just change jobs. But when more and more of the story is going down this same path? What else am I supposed to turn to?