"I don't want to think while I play, so no one should be allowed to."

[pikalovr]

Eh, it was mundane. Not sure how much she agreed, but she wasn't purely negative about it so whatever. Just hope her fans don't start flooding here.

it's her stream from 5 days ago around 1 hour 12 minutes in just fyi

[Imora]

I'd rather healers need to heal more rather than dps.

My favorite runs are when shit goes sideways and I can't just mindlessly art of war spam.

And I'm convinced that "omg drk is so hard to heal" comes from "I'd rather be art of war spamming" instead of hard casting heals.

If there were more to do than dpsing, healers wouldn't be complaining all the do is spam broil.

[technole]

The healer rehaul thread is loaded with healer mains for years and there has been good discussion points in there. I can't think of anything I really disagreed with. It doesn't matter what they do to healers if the battle content doesn't change with it. Normally you are taught that the best mitigation in the game is damage. But designers can work around that aspect with required healing phasing. Sometimes it feels like it's a lost cause cause everyone is DPS with just a different color in this game, and to put it simply having to hit a set of buttons at certain times. It's a valid discussion, even the JP side has similar thoughts.

[Silver-Strider]

I'd rather healers need to heal more rather than dps.

My favorite runs are when shit goes sideways and I can't just mindlessly art of war spam.

And I'm convinced that "omg drk is so hard to heal" comes from "I'd rather be art of war spamming" instead of hard casting heals.

If there were more to do than dpsing, healers wouldn't be complaining all the do is spam broil.

The problem with that mentality is that you'd need to increase the output from the entire game for it to work and even then, that only solves the issue in group content. Solo content would still be a slog to do on a healer because the healing threshold has to be low enough for any role to complete that content, meaning nothing changes for this content and Healers still suck for it. Doing Story content, Tribe quest, etc would still be boring to do since you can't reasonably increase the healing requirements on those, leaving healers with the same dull gameplay loop as before.

It's a bandaid fix at best and doesn't solve all the issues with healers.

[Shurrikhan]

The problem with that mentality is that you'd need to increase the output from the entire game for it to work.

Technically, you could just nerf heals rather than adjusting each encounter's damage, with healer offensive ppgcd increased in compensation for the typical offensive gcds thus lost.

That healers ought to heal more isn't mutually exclusive, either, with their having more varied buttons to press when heal aren't necessary. You can have both more time spent on healing and a more in-depth damage kit, and neither is any more the "bandaid" fix than the other.

[Sebazy]

I'd rather healers need to heal more rather than dps.

My favorite runs are when shit goes sideways and I can't just mindlessly art of war spam.

And I'm convinced that "omg drk is so hard to heal" comes from "I'd rather be art of war spamming" instead of hard casting heals.

If there were more to do than dpsing, healers wouldn't be complaining all the do is spam broil.

Oh absolutely, but there's a few problems with this.

First off, the number one response cited against requesting more complex downtime mechanics for healers is that it'll make things too hard for some. It'll cause wipes, it'll scare healers off etcetc.

And upping the healing requirements enough in mainstream content to actually pressure our kits in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing won't scare the same people away?

I'd absolutely love to see more fights like Godkefka or the final moments of P4S p2 where you're having to heal constant aoe damage whilst also handling a couple of mechanics that will kill you and the raid if you mess up. That's the sort of thing that actually pressures our kits and forces you to actually need to start spending GCDs on healing.

Great, now put that in 24 man and see how a sub 10CPM healer copes with it. Spoiler: They won't.

Upping the healing a small amount won't make a blind bit of difference because casual content is tuned to a level that is so far below what our kits are capable of. This is why we are spending the vast majority of our GCDs on the same button regardless of if we are doing 24 man or the first floor of Savage.

Adding complexity to DPS is the most requested route because frankly it's the route that's most compatible with the game that we play today. Personally I'd prefer to see buffing and debuffing explored more as well but even that opens up a big old can of worms too.

[Semirhage]

That's the rub, you can't "just" fix the healing part of the kits. There will always, always, always be downtime. The alternative is making encounters so difficult to heal that, at peak performance and efficiency, you have to be casting healing spells 100% of the time (or at least spend 100% of your resources on them and...I dunno, /sit the rest of the time). As much as Yoshida tells us he isn't going to return to previous healer complexity, there's no way in hell he's foolish enough to tune healing -that- high. No way. You'd chase the playerbase away in a single patch. You have to leave wiggle room for everyone, including skilled veteran healers. Your mass-appeal game cannot bet all of its capital on encounters that are so tightly tuned down to making a single GCD slip anywhere ruin an entire pull. That wiggle room extends to the entire game, and only grows more abundant as you go below the highest difficulty.

Within that wiggle room exists downtime. There are a ton of things you can do with downtime, but downtime is what it remains. You can't "just" fix the healing. The downtime kits are close to the most boring you could possibly make them, and like it or not unless you want unskilled healers to get shut out of the game entirely, there are going to be skilled healers that have a LOT of downtime. You don't hide something that boring behind just making the other half of the kit more interesting. You can't. The game's skill gap doesn't logically allow it.

[Renathras]

It also goes both ways.

The easy solution is to have some jobs that are hard, and some jobs that are easy, best of both worlds.
The problem's there?

This.

SO MUCH THIS.

I've said this a lot, so yeah, I agree.

The funny thing is, the people wanting the hard jobs "to be challenged" get mad if you suggest letting them have what they want. I've suggested making SCH and AST "complex" healers with all the DPS stuff they want to "not be bored" while leaving WHM and SGE the same as today, and AST/SCH doing no more damage than WHM/SGE, just having to put in more work.

Instantly the argument goes from "we just don't want to be bored" to "we should be rewarded for our harder work...even though it's work we're literally asking for".

Then you see arguments like this thread calling anyone bad or lacking competence if they aren't good with (or just don't enjoy) DPS rotations.

The truth is, these people are elitists that want to lock other people out of content. The "boredom" argument is a canard, and always has been. If it wasn't, they'd jump at the chance of having a couple complex Jobs in each role to play so they wouldn't be bored. And if they thought they WERE really the majority of the player base - as they insist they are - they'd jump at this because what better way to prove it than the statistics showing all the people swapping from WHM/SGE to AST/SCH because EVERYONE loves complex challenge?

...but I think the reality is, we all know people would swap FROM the complex TO the simple, and then the OP and those like them would complain that the simple Jobs being able to match their DPS is unfair and "bads" are allowed to do content (the horror!) and how every Job needs to be punishing to prevent people who aren't them from enjoying the game or being competent at clearing content.

.

I think the truth is that FFXIV is where it is and is not very likely to change to suit them anyway. But it'd be nice if they dropped the canards and just fully embraced what they want - a game with elites standing atop the Orgrimmar bank in full Tier 3 with the masses of "lesser" players gawking at them in "awe".

...that has never really been FFXIV outside of a few achievements and mounts, and it's unlikely it ever will be. And thank god for that. FFXIV has never been Dark Souls, and it's never been as toxic as games like WoW. I think most people prefer it stay that way.

[Kazelus]

I think the truth is that FFXIV is where it is and is not very likely to change to suit them anyway. But it'd be nice if they dropped the canards and just fully embraced what they want - a game with elites standing atop the Orgrimmar bank in full Tier 3 with the masses of "lesser" players gawking at them in "awe".

You really don't understand that people who are asking for more complex DPS rotation on healer roles just only wants to do something that is NOT SPAMMING ONE BUTTON for 10 min straight ?

It will not increase difficulty on the healer roles, bad will still be bad, but good healer will be able to have an interesting gameplay to do. That's all.

[pikalovr]

This.

SO MUCH THIS.

I've said this a lot, so yeah, I agree.

The funny thing is, the people wanting the hard jobs "to be challenged" get mad if you suggest letting them have what they want. I've suggested making SCH and AST "complex" healers with all the DPS stuff they want to "not be bored" while leaving WHM and SGE the same as today, and AST/SCH doing no more damage than WHM/SGE, just having to put in more work.

Instantly the argument goes from "we just don't want to be bored" to "we should be rewarded for our harder work...even though it's work we're literally asking for".

Then you see arguments like this thread calling anyone bad or lacking competence if they aren't good with (or just don't enjoy) DPS rotations.

The truth is, these people are elitists that want to lock other people out of content. The "boredom" argument is a canard, and always has been. If it wasn't, they'd jump at the chance of having a couple complex Jobs in each role to play so they wouldn't be bored. And if they thought they WERE really the majority of the player base - as they insist they are - they'd jump at this because what better way to prove it than the statistics showing all the people swapping from WHM/SGE to AST/SCH because EVERYONE loves complex challenge?

...but I think the reality is, we all know people would swap FROM the complex TO the simple, and then the OP and those like them would complain that the simple Jobs being able to match their DPS is unfair and "bads" are allowed to do content (the horror!) and how every Job needs to be punishing to prevent people who aren't them from enjoying the game or being competent at clearing content.

.

I think the truth is that FFXIV is where it is and is not very likely to change to suit them anyway. But it'd be nice if they dropped the canards and just fully embraced what they want - a game with elites standing atop the Orgrimmar bank in full Tier 3 with the masses of "lesser" players gawking at them in "awe".

...that has never really been FFXIV outside of a few achievements and mounts, and it's unlikely it ever will be. And thank god for that. FFXIV has never been Dark Souls, and it's never been as toxic as games like WoW. I think most people prefer it stay that way.

hmm yes effort equal reward hmm yes this foreign concept tot he average XIV player apparently it's almost as if games reward you for going for more difficult things or rewards you for putting int he time or effort to find ways to cheese the game and make it easier. no no this isn't a game after all that's proposterous